Basic Internet Connectivity And Modem Help

[jbrantly]

I would just like to throw my hat in and say that this is a bad idea from the "what's best for the customer" perspective. I'm a new Comcast customer and so far I'm not impressed at all. From the initial DNS hijacking that occurs during cable installation (you have to download and run some program before DNS actually works*?? ridiculous.), to this new **bleep** with Domain Helper. I understand these decisions are probably made on a business level and not a technical level, so I just wanted to make sure my voice was heard. Right now, I'm looking forward to finding an alternative to Comcast.

Regarding OpenDNS "offering" the same service, one important difference is that OpenDNS is opt-in.

*Right after the installation tech got things going, I needed to go through an account setup process. This was done through DNS hijacking. The last step in the process was to download and run some program on my computer. I tried other computers on the network, etc, first. The whole network was blocked until this step was performed (or unless I configured OpenDNS). I finally downloaded and ran it in a virtual machine as I did not trust it one bit.

Message Edited by jbrantly on 08-05-2009 09:56 PM

[dnshighjacklame]

I don't have anything helpful to add, other than this is a terrible, terrible move on comcast's part for all the reasons listed above.  Shame.

[ComcastChrisGr]

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jbrantly wrote:

*Right after the installation tech got things going, I needed to go through an account setup process. This was done through DNS hijacking. The last step in the process was to download and run some program on my computer. I tried other computers on the network, etc, first. The whole network was blocked until this step was performed (or unless I configured OpenDNS). I finally downloaded and ran it in a virtual machine as I did not trust it one bit.

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This is called the walled garden environment and yes it does DNS redirection, but for a different purpose.  At the time of installation you are not currently linked as a high speed customer and as such you are required to only go to our activation systems.  All service providers use this or similar processes for self install to help make the installation easier to use.  You could choose to simply call into the call center and have your modem activated without using this service and simply plug it in.

As you point out, once your activation is complete, you are free to use any DNS servers (Comcast, 3rd party, or even your own).

The software installation is not required to use our services, like if you use a Mac or a Linux system.

Message Edited by ctg1701a on 08-06-2009 07:10 AM

[DavidB17]

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jlivingood wrote:

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Interestingly, and I spend a lot of time at the IETF, the DNS standards are not a rigid as you might think on this point.  It may also be worthwhile reading this doc that I wrote:

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That's all well and nice, but I don't get what was the rush to push this out nationwide before a proper opt-in easy for the customer method of employment was created?  There are likely many of your customers who would/will absolutely LOVE this (not realizing it's just another revenue generation scheme by Comcast), but like the Phorm fiasco demonstrated in the UK this SHOULD have been opt-in, not opt-out. Comcast is going to talk some serious public flack over this that COULD have been mostly avoided had it been opt-in. Sure there might have been some amount of chatter but since only those who CHOOSE to have it would have it, the complaints would have been minimal.  Now Comcast support is going to get hundreds if not thousands of emails/calls about things being broken that you didn't forsee or people just not liking it or people wanting out once they read an article about what this REALLY is, adding a support burden that the ad revenues generated are going to take a long time to offset.

Ah well...yet another Comcast "service" rolled out without seeing the forest through the trees....

I love my high speed cable service, but **bleep** you guys sure seem to have a way of shooting yourselves in the foot when rolling something out like this.  Doesn't anyone at Comcast ever survey REAL CUSTOMERS?

I mean, I don't really have a problem with Comcast wanting to do something like this (though I would opt-out of such a thing for sure), but when it's done in advance of an approved IETF standard that's the problem.  Until a new standard is promulgated that allows this sort of thing Comcast should only be doing it as opt-in.

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UPDATE:  Wow, what perfect timing!  I walk out to check the mailbox this afternoon and gues what I see hanging on my front door?  A bright orange tag telling me the FIOS diggers are coming down my street within the next couple days.  Hoorah!!

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Message Edited by DavidB17 on 08-06-2009 07:09 AM

Message Edited by DavidB17 on 08-06-2009 01:41 PM

[Anon808350000]

Hijacking DNS to create ad space is contemptible behavior from a national ISP.

Further, it's compounded by an incredibly opaque and arduous opt-out process. Can you honestly picture most consumers locating and correctly communicating the appropriate MAC address?

Worst of all, Comcast ALREADY HAS the correct MAC associated with the customer's account. The opt-out process could (and should) be no more complex than changing a spam preference on the user's account page. This multi-step, multi-day, technically-complex process is needless and absurd. It's very obviously designed to retard opt-outs and maintain ad impressions as much as possible.

Perhaps a complaint to the FCC would be in order.

[ComcastChrisGr]

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Anon808350000 wrote:

Further, it's compounded by an incredibly opaque and arduous opt-out process. Can you honestly picture most consumers locating and correctly communicating the appropriate MAC address?

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As a matter of fact customers supply their MAC address at installation time for self install so I can picture them locating it quite easily.  We have supplied two options for retrieving the MAC address on the help page either directly from the modem or via the modem config page at http://192.168.100.1. They can also call into support and have them opt them out.  

I would hardly classify typing in a MAC address as arduous, especially when the user specifically wants to opt-out.  They can also simply point to our opt-out DNS directly, use any third party DNS, or run their own if they so choose.  

[efkeebler]

Just adding my voice to the pile of complaints about how lousy this is. Comcast is hijacking the proper functioning of DNS in a money-grab, and they're making people jump through annoying, time-consuming hoops to escape it. This shouldn't be some crazy multi-step process involving multiple emails / link clicking / filling out forms and providing information that Comcast already has (MAC address - I was NOT happy to have to crawl under my desk with a flashlight to get this information when it's already in Comcast's records)... clearly the "opt-out" process (not that I ever "opted in"!!) is designed to be a pain so that people won't complete it, thereby maximizing profits. Not to mention that it sets a dangerous precedent: making money by subverting the proper functioning of the Internet, and without first getting customers' explicit consent... once Comcast is addicted to the ad profits of this slimy move, what will be altered next? SHAME ON COMCAST.

Oh, and Comcast, spare me the ridiculous spin-laden response... instead, stop your DNS hijacking!

[username44]

I've been a comcast customer for years in three different locations and never had a need to visit a forum or post a comment - but I registered today just to say - QUIT invading upon our privacy.  The US is turning more and more into a communist country every day and I don't need Comcast to jump on the bandwagon by trying to tell me what internet site I'm trying to visit.

Yes - I opted out first thing when I got the e-mail.  BUT Comcast should have made this an OPT IN measure rather than an OPT OUT.  But, it's clear that few would OPT in . . . please stop trying to tell your users what it is they can view and what it is they cannot view.

I having a feeling that you're going reply that it's for the "user's best interest and that the user can always opt out" . . . meh . . . again, the user should have the option to OPT in . . . before the user needs to OPT out.

[mcaplus]

At the very least, there should have been a warning that this was about to occur, particularly since we have a "business" account (whose speeds sometimes are exceeded by my home Cox.net account but whatever) and it affects all my users--not just one home computer.

At best, this should have been OPT-IN. I can see how it can be a feature for some, but for me it is basically an annoyance and another hoop to jump through before I can get satisfactory service. Way to force everyone to the lowest common denominator without asking first.

Some practical critiques of the opt-out page:

- Please allow pasting of a full MAC address into the fields.

- List the address the confirmation email will be coming from so that people can whitelist it to protect it from spam filtering.
- Give estimated times for emailing the confirmation request and the final opt-out confirmation on the first page.

[bigtrout]

For people that know what they are doing this is a waste of time. For people that don't, it's confusing. Either way, it should be opt-in, not opt-out.

Another revenue generation scheme from comcast. I only wish there was more broadband competition - hmm, i know, we should contact our senators and representatives and encourage them to promote competitive practices in the broadband/market.

[howardtopher]

I don't like this and will probably start using the DNS servers at my place of work. (Since I run them, I can do what I want.)

I would like to know... is the opt-out 100% free of hijacking (do I receive NXDOMAIN responses)?  Or do you still hijack it and give a generic 'Site does not exist' page instead of ads and search results? Charter does this same hijack, but if you opt out they still hijack you, they just don't give you ads.

[Anon808350000]

Let's take a look at your assertions:

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ctg1701a wrote: 

As a matter of fact customers supply their MAC address at installation time for self install so I can picture them locating it quite easily.

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According to your comment, this would only apply to customers who self-install. Customers who are installed by a service rep or installer may never know what a MAC address is, much less know how to find theirs.

Further, even customers who have self-installed were usually guided through the process by instructions or a customer service rep on the phone. Asking a non-tech user to recall this process will likely result in some confusion in the majority of cases.

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We have supplied two options for retrieving the MAC address on the help page either directly from the modem or via the modem config page at http://192.168.100.1.

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This is true. However, since you already have this information on file with the rest of the account data, why is the customer being asked to provide it at all?

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They can also call into support and have them opt them out.

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It does not say this on any of the pages at http://dns-opt-out.comcast.net. If this were intended as a serious customer service option, why not place a statement to that effect, along with the customer service phone number, prominently on the page?

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I would hardly classify typing in a MAC address as arduous, especially when the user specifically wants to opt-out.

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Perhaps you wouldn't, insofar as your experience as a professional technical support rep makes this task seem trivial to you. If you were a retired librarian with no technical experience, I suspect you'd be grateful not to have to learn about MAC addresses, the status page on your cable modem and DNS.

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They can also simply point to our opt-out DNS directly, use any third party DNS, or run their own if they so choose.

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What is the opt-out DNS address you recommend?

Why are none of these options, or the alternative DNS address, mentioned at http://dns-opt-out.comcast.net? Again, if these are intended to be serious options, it would be excellent customer service for you to mention them prominently on the opt out page.

Finally, just so that I'm clear, did you just invite Comcast customers to operate their own BIND/DNS servers on your network? I ask, because the Terms of Service I signed when I began using my cable modem explicitly forbid me from running servers from my home internet connection. Does your statement reflect a change in the Terms of Service of which I am unaware?

Thanks!

[ComcastChrisGr]

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howardtopher wrote:

I don't like this and will probably start using the DNS servers at my place of work. (Since I run them, I can do what I want.)

I would like to know... is the opt-out 100% free of hijacking (do I receive NXDOMAIN responses)?  Or do you still hijack it and give a generic 'Site does not exist' page instead of ads and search results? Charter does this same hijack, but if you opt out they still hijack you, they just don't give you ads.

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The opt-out servers will return NXDOMAIN for responses and are not running the software in that view required to do domain redirection.  If you use those they will be exactly like before we launched Domain Helper.

Message Edited by ctg1701a on 08-06-2009 04:15 PM

[ComcastChrisGr]

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Anon808350000 wrote:
What is the opt-out DNS address you recommend?

Finally, just so that I'm clear, did you just invite Comcast customers to operate their own BIND/DNS servers on your network? I ask, because the Terms of Service I signed when I began using my cable modem explicitly forbid me from running servers from my home internet connection. Does your statement reflect a change in the Terms of Service of which I am unaware?

Thanks!

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You can run a local BIND resolver for your own personal use behind a router/fw, and we don't restrict that.    We do enforce sharing this DNS server or allowing access to it outside your local Lan which you refer to in the TOS.

As for the DNS IPs, I posted these along with other information in my original national launch post which you may have missed, so you can find them here:

http://dns.comcast.net/dns-ip-addresses.html

Message Edited by ctg1701a on 08-06-2009 04:24 PM

[Welcome_to_Post]

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ctg1701a wrote:

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MelvinTheGrate wrote:

Interesting. I opted out when the first announcement was posted, but I see that I am getting assigned the "Helper" nameservers anyway. Seems a lot like "opting out" from a spammer's mailing list, but I'll try opting out again.

[edit to add the following]

OK, this is just so wonderful. I go to the "opt-out" page, type in my email address and my modem's HFC MAC address, click on "Submit", and just get dropped right back to the opt-out page again. Oh, look!! Hiding in the midst of the text is a paragraph that says this MAC address has already requested to be opted out. Great interface, guys. Since I went around that loop a couple of times before noticing that paragraph, I'll just have to wait and see if I get any email suggesting that something might have changed. (Not holding my breath!)

Message Edited by MelvinTheGrate on 08-04-2009 09:56 PM

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We are investigating your issues, and will get this corrected for you very shortly.  Thanks for your patience.

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Great.  While you're at it, please investigate mine, since I'm seeing exactly the same thing.  Got the email two days after opting out, clicked on it, and so far, nothing.......

[ComcastChrisGr]

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Welcome_to_Post wrote:

Great.  While you're at it, please investigate mine, since I'm seeing exactly the same thing.  Got the email two days after opting out, clicked on it, and so far, nothing.......

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I believe I sent you an email explaining your situation at the request of Jason.  I would recommend you review your email.

Thanks

[Welcome_to_Post]

That's the primary account email that's been used so long it's a spam trap, not to mention having been created long enough ago that I didn't even know about such things (so it's my last name!!!)

I shall go look and report back.

[Welcome_to_Post]

Hi, Tom or Chris, and maybe Jason,

Yes, I got both of you fella's emails.  One of you noted that I sent in an "invalid" MAC address.  Yeah, probably.  The thread at DSL had a link that might take me to a website that was supposed to give me the MAC address.  Well, darn, it gave me two, and I had no idea which one was which.  Don’t know, shouldn’t have to care.  When one got no response, and hours and hours passed with no response, I tried again with no response other than a refresh of the page.  So I entered the other one, with the same result!

Only when I complained here did I get any response.   Now, I’ve received emails (one from Chris, the other anonymous) that in five days or less (!), I’ll be opted out. 

Look, guys.  The opt out clearly isn’t working for many ordinary people, and isn’t going to.  I’m not one of those;  I have two degrees in engineering (civil/environmental), one in math, another in medical technology.  I’m not stupid, nor am I technically non-savy.  I’m not particularly computer literate;  I often shock guys like you by referring to a computer as an overdesigned hammer.  It’s a tool I can often use to do real work.  I really don’t care how they work;  as long as they do, great.  If they don’t, I’m not going to fool with them, because I don’t have time to play with the tool, I have real work to do.  For all that, with the software I do use to do my work, I’m a power user.  If I can’t get it done, do you really think Mom and Pop are going to?

The opt-out isn’t as clear cut as you’d have us believe.  And that’s probably by design.  Believe me, I do understand the bottom line.  But this is low.  Really bad, even for Comcast.

But it does appear that inside a week I’ll finally have been opted out.  Thanks for the help.  And please take these heartfelt comments seriously.

[monkeypoop]

Deleted by MonkeyPoop.....

Message Edited by monkeypoop on 08-06-2009 07:06 PM

[BobChat]

This is an incredibly stupid thing for Comcast to do.  Many malware sites rely on users mistyping URLs and accidently landing on them.  Now Comcast is going to help you get there even faster.

I did the opt-out procedure for us.  Although the steps were spelled out clearly, it involves things that are very foreign to the average user.  Shame on Comcast!  Are they taking lessons from Micro$oft?

[WiganBoy]

I do not want or need this service. Why should I have to opt-out? You should be asking if I want to opt-in in the first place.

This is a despicable practice

[Yeasty]

1. If browsers support the feature via the URL field what is the point aside from capturing traffic going to outside sources to keep it internal?

2a. For someone that doesn't know this and is used to their Bing/Google/Whatever search engine doing what you are now doing, was the cost of support evaluated in these decisions?

2b. If a customer not in the know contacts Microsoft/Apple/Google/whoever and pays for support, only to find it is Comcast's issue, will Comcast reimburse the customer?  And expecting what the answer will be, why not, when these changes were made without authorization?

3. Specifically to jlivingood: 'Vigorous' feedback is the same as 'overwhelming response' - quantity not quality.  Was the feedback you received overwhelmingly negative or positive?  Why was this term not used instead of 'vigorous' other than to obfuscate the nature of the response?

4. Is the security risk of having one compromised server affect the majority of automatically opted-in customers worth it?  I'm thinking more in line of SQL injections/automated botnet attacks that result in obfuscated javascript attacks towards client browsers and the like. 

5. Were these changes of service documented persuant to section 4 of http://www.comcast.net/terms/subscriber ?  IE, if not sent by mail, then made a mention on www.comcast.com or www.comcast.net (NOT forums.comcast.net).  If not, what reasonable time frame is given to the user to cancel service when discovery of the change requires mistyping a URL?  Will cancelling members be subject to a service charge/early termination fee if they signed on for a 1/2 year contract?

6.Will opting out of this service enter the user into a 'Non-recommended configuration' in section 6(b)(i) of the Terms of Service?

7. Will any monetary gains seen by the service be passed on the customers as savings?  If this is being used to 'offset equipment costs,' by using outside DNS servers, and not using the equipment in questions, are customers eligable for a discount of another kind?

8. If the 'walled garden' as mentioned in a previous response was used for customer installation, why was the 'walled garden' used to obtain opt-in permission to use the service instead of forcing it on customers?

That's about all I can think of for now.

[Gecko1952]

I get caught up in this "Helper" mess starting on Friday 8/7/09 my first response was to call comcast tech support to ask them why they were hijacking  a newly registered domain name. Tech support had no idea what I was talking about and insisted that it was a browser setting on my end that was causing the redirect. They told me that Comcast does not have the ability to do this and that I was wrong in saying that it was on Comcast's end that this was happening. When I insisted that I knew what I was talking about and that their "DNS Helper" service was hijacking my newly registered domain name he told me that I didn't know what I was talking about. When I asked to elevate this issue they refused to oblige my request and again told me it was not Comcast, I then ended the call.

After viewing this http://search2.comcast.com redirect page several times I then noticed the Disable this error service link that took me to the Opt out page, once I saw the request for my MAC address I called Comcast right back, I knew it was not on my end now.

I got the same responses from tech support until they finial visited the Opt out page themselves. I asked them to please opt me out and they told me they had no idea this service was being provided and that they could not opt me out, I would have to call their Security center to try and resolve this problem.

At that point I called the FCC and filed a complaint against Comcast and their "DNS Helper" service. The FCC recommended that I also report this issue to the FTC, so I filed a complaint with them as well.  

[howardtopher]

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Gecko1952 wrote:

At that point I called the FCC and filed a complaint against Comcast and their "DNS Helper" service. The FCC recommended that I also report this issue to the FTC, so I filed a complaint with them as well.  

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yay more people should do the same.

[titusmckieus]

The question  I have is that if this thread is representative of the percent of people that like and or don't like this "service" why on earth would comcast follow though with this? It was mentiond that this is a "technical trial of the DNS redirect service"

So is there a chance that this may not be followed through

[Welcome_to_Post]

I've seen three other threads on this subject.  Two over on DSLReports.com, and two here.  There's a partial one in the email forum, as well.  This is very much representative.

Nevertheless, I sincerely doubt that Comcast will give up such a lucrative revenue stream just because their customers don't like it.  Comcast is notorious for ignoring customer desires.

[howardtopher]

When they have the monopoly in a lot of markets (like they do where I live) they dont have to care what the customer thinks.  All they care about is filling their pockets with as much money as they possibly can.  If I had a choice I wouldn't be their customer.

[Barmar]

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bigtrout wrote:

For people that know what they are doing this is a waste of time. For people that don't, it's confusing. Either way, it should be opt-in, not opt-out.

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That would be useless, since even the customers who would probably benefit from the service wouldn't opt-in, because they wouldn't know enough to do so. 

[Barmar]

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schm00ve wrote:

Your comment about the www prefix holds little water for me.  There are plenty of machines that start with www that will connect via all of those protocols.  I can name my machine's whatever I want.  Just because it starts with www doesn't mean that its not an email server. 

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Sure, you can name machines whatever you want, but you shouldn't. It's pretty silly to use a "www" name for things that aren't web servers. If a machine runs multiple services, it's best to give it different names, e.g. www.foo.com for the web service, ftp.foo.com for the FTP service, mail.foo.com for the SMTP or POP service, etc. These can all resolve to the same IP, and the ftp and mail names won't be hijacked.

I challenge you to find a service that's actually using a www name for something other than a web server.

Also, the Domain Helper service generally only affects names that are typed manually, since it only comes into play when the name is misspelled. Most non-web services don't involve users entering host names interactively, like they do when typing in a browser's address bar, so the chance of using a misspelled name and getting hijacked is very low.

[DavidB17]

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Barmar wrote:

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That would be useless, since even the customers who would probably benefit from the service wouldn't opt-in, because they wouldn't know enough to do so. 

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Wouldn't know enough to do so, or would realize exactly what this is and decide (as they SHOULD be allowed to do) on their own that this is a Comcast "feature" that they don't want?  My money is on the latter.

So if customers are so dumb (as you imply) as to not "know enough to do so", why are they not equally too dumb to opt out?

[DavidB17]

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Barmar wrote:

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Sure, you can name machines whatever you want, but you shouldn't. It's pretty silly to use a "www" name for things that aren't web servers. If a machine runs multiple services, it's best to give it different names, e.g. www.foo.com for the web service, ftp.foo.com for the FTP service, mail.foo.com for the SMTP or POP service, etc. These can all resolve to the same IP, and the ftp and mail names won't be hijacked.

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WE (the Comcast customers) aren't the ones that give servers names! It shouldn't matter to me the customer what domain prefix a service uses, if it be www.foo.com or ftp.foo.com or whatever. We have an expectation that Comcast to provide transparent service and this hijacking (as you call it!) is anything BUT transparent!

[ComcastChrisGr]

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DavidB17 wrote:

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Barmar wrote:

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Sure, you can name machines whatever you want, but you shouldn't. It's pretty silly to use a "www" name for things that aren't web servers. If a machine runs multiple services, it's best to give it different names, e.g. www.foo.com for the web service, ftp.foo.com for the FTP service, mail.foo.com for the SMTP or POP service, etc. These can all resolve to the same IP, and the ftp and mail names won't be hijacked.

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WE (the Comcast customers) aren't the ones that give servers names! It shouldn't matter to me the customer what domain prefix a service uses, if it be www.foo.com or ftp.foo.com or whatever. We have an expectation that Comcast to provide transparent service and this hijacking (as you call it!) is anything BUT transparent!

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We have attempted to be extremely transparent and I would recommend looking at the following to show how this works and what we are redirecting:

http://networkmanagement.comcast.net/DomainHelperLogic.htm

Message Edited by ctg1701a on 08-10-2009 05:30 PM

[howardtopher]

Ok this is transparent:

pajamas:~ christopher$ host www.asdfwaergadfgsdg.com
Host www.asdfwaergadfgsdg.com not found: 3(NXDOMAIN)

This is not transparent:

pajamas:~ christopher$ host www.asdfwaergadfgsdg.com 68.87.68.166
Using domain server:
Name: 68.87.68.166
Address: 68.87.68.166#53
Aliases:

www.asdfwaergadfgsdg.com has address 208.68.139.38

First example is normal DNS operation as the request was forwarded on to the root servers.  The second example uses Comcast's DNS server for my area.

[Barmar]

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DavidB17 wrote:

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Barmar wrote:

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Sure, you can name machines whatever you want, but you shouldn't. It's pretty silly to use a "www" name for things that aren't web servers. If a machine runs multiple services, it's best to give it different names, e.g. www.foo.com for the web service, ftp.foo.com for the FTP service, mail.foo.com for the SMTP or POP service, etc. These can all resolve to the same IP, and the ftp and mail names won't be hijacked.

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WE (the Comcast customers) aren't the ones that give servers names! It shouldn't matter to me the customer what domain prefix a service uses, if it be www.foo.com or ftp.foo.com or whatever. We have an expectation that Comcast to provide transparent service and this hijacking (as you call it!) is anything BUT transparent! 

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My point is that the people who operate servers DO follow common naming conventions. They don't as a general rule use www.* names for things that aren't web servers.

Do you know of any examples that contradict this?  And it has to be servers whose names you're going to enter manually, so that typos are a concern.

[Barmar]

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DavidB17 wrote:

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Barmar wrote:

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That would be useless, since even the customers who would probably benefit from the service wouldn't opt-in, because they wouldn't know enough to do so. 

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Wouldn't know enough to do so, or would realize exactly what this is and decide (as they SHOULD be allowed to do) on their own that this is a Comcast "feature" that they don't want?  My money is on the latter.

So if customers are so dumb (as you imply) as to not "know enough to do so", why are they not equally too dumb to opt out?

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For the customers that are competent to make a decision about it, it doesn't matter whether it's opt-in or opt-out, they'll do whatever they need. The less tech savvy will go with whatever the default is. Since I expect this is the majority, if Comcast made this an opt-in service it would probably see very little use and it wouldn't have been worth implementing in the first place.

Of course, you probably believe that it wasn't worth implementing, so I doubt that argument will sway you. 

[Barmar]

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howardtopher wrote:

This is not transparent:

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What he meant by transparent is that they didn't do this secretly. Email was sent to all customers warning them of this change. Also, when you get redirected to the search page, it has a link you can click on to go to the opt-out page.

The technical implementation isn't transparent because there's no way for it to be. The DNS protocol doesn't provide a way to include this type of information in a response. 

[MadScotsman]

One of Comcast's Oh So Helpful help pages stated the Domain Redirect only happened when the URL typed in was WWW.name.COM.  I thought - OK, that's not too bad, I never type in www anyway so I'm not affected.

Wrong.

When I type fffrrrttt.com, as a random URL that doesn't exist, I get the Comcast advert page.  Comcast documentation says their helper would not do that.  Is this simply a case of Comcast business as usual (sloppy coding, sloppy documentation, deliberate lie, you take your pick) or did I misunderstand the document?

The document in question can be found at:  http://networkmanagement.comcast.net/DomainHelperLogic.htm

Thanks, Neil.

[ComcastChrisGr]

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MadScotsman wrote:

One of Comcast's Oh So Helpful help pages stated the Domain Redirect only happened when the URL typed in was WWW.name.COM.  I thought - OK, that's not too bad, I never type in www anyway so I'm not affected.

Wrong.

When I type fffrrrttt.com, as a random URL that doesn't exist, I get the Comcast advert page.  Comcast documentation says their helper would not do that.  Is this simply a case of Comcast business as usual (sloppy coding, sloppy documentation, deliberate lie, you take your pick) or did I misunderstand the document?

The document in question can be found at:  http://networkmanagement.comcast.net/DomainHelperLogic.htm

Thanks, Neil.

---

Neil,

I am not sure how you attempted to reproduce this, some web browsers will add the www to domains typed in the URL bar and this would match the criteria to redirect, but the DNS will not redirect your example:

You can also reproduce this with dig or nslookup for yourself.

Your example to one of the Domain Helper DNS server VIPs, it does not redirect, it gets an NXDOMAIN as stated:

dig @68.87.64.150 fffrrrttt.com

; <<>> DiG 9.4.3-P1 <<>> @68.87.64.150 fffrrrttt.com
; (1 server found)
;; global options:  printcmd
;; Got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NXDOMAIN, id: 43153
;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 1, ADDITIONAL: 0

;; QUESTION SECTION:
;fffrrrttt.com.            IN    A

;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
com.            900    IN    SOA    a.gtld-servers.net. nstld.verisign-grs.com. 1250288750 1800 900 604800 86400

;; Query time: 131 msec
;; SERVER: 68.87.64.150#53(68.87.64.150)
;; WHEN: Fri Aug 14 18:25:59 2009
;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 104
 

Your example to one of the Domain Helper DNS server VIPs with WWW added, it gets a redirect from Domain Helper DNS because it does match the criteria stated on our networkmanagement website you posted:

dig @68.87.64.150 www.fffrrrttt.com

; <<>> DiG 9.4.3-P1 <<>> @68.87.64.150 www.fffrrrttt.com
; (1 server found)
;; global options:  printcmd
;; Got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 49907
;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 1, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 0

;; QUESTION SECTION:
;www.fffrrrttt.com.        IN    A

;; ANSWER SECTION:
www.fffrrrttt.com.    0    IN    A    208.68.139.38

;; Query time: 121 msec
;; SERVER: 68.87.64.150#53(68.87.64.150)
;; WHEN: Fri Aug 14 18:26:16 2009
;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 51

Please feel free to reproduce and take a look at the browser you are using.  

You can try this against any of our DNS servers listed in the opt-out and Domain helper DNS lists:

http://dns.comcast.net

Thanks

[MadScotsman]

Thanks for the reply ctg1701a.  Most of what you said was way over my head but the bit about browsers adding the www got me a-checking.  I use Firefox 3.0.8 and it adds the www, thus triggering the dreaded Comcast software.  FYI - I reproduced the problem by typing the incorrect URL into my browser's address bar - I'm sorry I thought that would have been obvious.

 The answer to my question is that the documentation is incorrect.  

 The Comcast doc at http://networkmanagement.comcast.net/DomainHelperL

ogic.htm says, and I paraphrase, when a user enters a non-existent domain name that begins with www then the redirect happens.

I, as a user, did not enter the www.  It would be really helpful if Comcast updated the doc so it was accurate.  All it would require is an aside saying that some browsers add the www before Comcast gets it.  Unfortunately, based on past experience, that's unlikely to happen.  Hey Comcast - prove me wrong by updating the doc.

Cheers, Neil.

[ComcastChrisGr]

---

MadScotsman wrote:

  The Comcast doc at http://networkmanagement.comcast.net/DomainHelperL

ogic.htm says, and I paraphrase, when a user enters a non-existent domain name that begins with www then the redirect happens.

I, as a user, did not enter the www.  It would be really helpful if Comcast updated the doc so it was accurate.  All it would require is an aside saying that some browsers add the www before Comcast gets it.  Unfortunately, based on past experience, that's unlikely to happen.  Hey Comcast - prove me wrong by updating the doc.

Cheers, Neil.

---

Neil,

Thanks for the suggestion.   I'll look at the website on Monday and see where we can add this information so its spelled out that web browsers may add the www when you intentionally didn't type it in and you would get redirected if the domain is invalid and top level domain does exist, but from a DNS redirect filter perspective, without the www you don't. 

[MadScotsman]

When ctg1701a said he'd look at the incorrect documentation and fix it, I was really impressed.  Wow, an individual at Comcast who might have a clue.  It doesn't happen very often.  Of course the doc was not updated and my initial moment of wonder has turned into the usual feeling of hopelessness in the face of the road blocks that Comcast always seems to put up.  Sad.  ... Cheers, Neil.

[ComcastChrisGr]

---

MadScotsman wrote:
When ctg1701a said he'd look at the incorrect documentation and fix it, I was really impressed.  Wow, an individual at Comcast who might have a clue.  It doesn't happen very often.  Of course the doc was not updated and my initial moment of wonder has turned into the usual feeling of hopelessness in the face of the road blocks that Comcast always seems to put up.  Sad.  ... Cheers, Neil.

---

It will get updated as I said, my focus is on other operational matters like an instant opt-out of the Domain Helper service through customer central which will be anounced very soon which people have been asking for, new faster DNS servers which we are getting ready to deploy to replace the exisiting ones, as well as working on some very cool new DNS tools for users like yourself.

Its on my list of things to do and my appologies for not getting it done just yet, but I will get it done.

Thanks

Message Edited by ctg1701a on 08-25-2009 08:38 PM

[ComcastChrisGr]

---

MadScotsman wrote:
When ctg1701a said he'd look at the incorrect documentation and fix it, I was really impressed.  Wow, an individual at Comcast who might have a clue.  It doesn't happen very often.  Of course the doc was not updated and my initial moment of wonder has turned into the usual feeling of hopelessness in the face of the road blocks that Comcast always seems to put up.  Sad.  ... Cheers, Neil.

---

I've updated the  page with your suggestion. 

http://networkmanagement.comcast.net/DomainHelperLogic.htm

Thanks

Message Edited by ctg1701a on 08-26-2009 03:43 PM

[MelvinTheGrate]

---

ctg1701a wrote: 

I've updated the  page with your suggestion. 

http://networkmanagement.comcast.net/DomainHelperLogic.htm

Thanks

Message Edited by ctg1701a on 08-26-2009 03:43 PM

---

At this time, ttempts to establish an HTTP connection to networkmanagement.comcast.net get an immediate TCP RST.

[ComcastChrisGr]

---

MelvinTheGrate wrote:

---

ctg1701a wrote: 

I've updated the  page with your suggestion. 

http://networkmanagement.comcast.net/DomainHelperLogic.htm

Thanks

Message Edited by ctg1701a on 08-26-2009 03:43 PM

---

At this time, ttempts to establish an HTTP connection to networkmanagement.comcast.net get an immediate TCP RST.

---

The site went down for some maintenance.  It should be up shortly.

Thanks

[belpoub]

Hey Barmar, how much Comcast pays you? You don't have the comcast logo, but you'r speaking like a comcast guy...

Maybe you got hijcaked by comcast.

Personally I use all browser (web development) and also search from the Chrome address bar, regularely I get redirected to the dreadly Comcast search.

In addition I type frequently URLs and smetime long ones, I prefer to get a server not found message and keep the long and painfull Url I just typed in the address bar. I then just have to correct the misspelling, but no, Comcast now replace it by the dreadly search! ** @#$%^&*()#$#^ bleep **

It's a waste of time for me and I should be compensated for it.

I should also be compensated for the time I will spend to be opted out.

This DSN hijacking should be only optin, we pay to have a connection and a clean DNS, and we do not get it. I did complain to the FTC and FCC and suggest anybody should do it.

They act in a monopoly situation like Micro$oft did for internet explorer.

All automatically opted in should be getting a rebate as their private entries are used.

In addition they are used without their knowledge. 

The problem is not how to optout, this should be an only opt in service hijacking 

Hum I smell a class action soon ????

[Barmar]

I'm just a customer, like you. 

Class action suit? Based on what? Comcast notified customers about the change, and provided multiple ways to opt out -- a web form and a web page with a list of all the DNS servers that you can put in your network configuration.

If this bothers you so much, why haven't you opted out yet? 

[LadynRed]

Not that it's needed, but I'm adding my voice to the objections to this ill-conceived idea of a 'dns helper'. As soon as it hit me the first time, I went and opted out - that was 6 days ago I have STILL not gotten any confirmation that I'm out - and the thing continues to be in my way!

Granted most customers are NOT going to even know what DNS is, but since my career has been in I.T. and included network and web administration, I DO know what it is and it annoys me no end to have this thrust upon me. I do NOT EVER search from my browser's address bar, I specifically turn it off because I hate it. If I fat-finger a url I'm perfectly capable of making the correction myself, I don't want or need "HELP"! If I don't know a URL or I'm searching for something, then I will use a SEARCH ENGINE - usually Google, to find what I"m looking for. Just get out of my way, and out of my face! 

Clearly the opt-out process is not meant to be as simple and certainly is far from efficient if  after 6 days you still can't get this thing OFF my account. Why is that I wonder ?? hmm.. Comcast is only seeing $$$$$ signs I think.

Unfortunately, this is not Comcast's only scheme in the making. While in Philadelphia a few months ago, waiting for my breakfast at the Marriott near city hall (not that from from Comcast's HQ), I overheard some Comcast people discussing a new 'service' that is even more intrusive!! Might be useful, I'm sure, for the computer illiterate population, but a real pain in the you-know-what for those of us who are not - just like this ill-named "helper"!!

Message Edited by LadynRed on 08-29-2009 11:18 AM

Message Edited by LadynRed on 08-29-2009 11:19 AM

[ComcastChrisGr]

I will check on the status of your opt-out and let you know if its been completed, but either way I will make sure you are opted out.  We are about to make it even easier to opt-out by using an instant opt-out method through our customer central Users and Settings tab which we will enable the link to early next week from the Domain Helper portal:

https://customer.comcast.com/Secure/Users.aspx

Hint:  Its currently live and you can use it right now if you want to opt-out using this method, but you MUST be the primary account holder of your account.  I will post an official post next week when we make it official.

Message Edited by ctg1701a on 08-30-2009 10:04 AM

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