Billing

[KealGSeo]

Just wondering if anyone can tell me why a "Cable Card" costs the same ammount as renting a digital cable box.

[JayInAlg]

Right now a cable card is the same price as a full set top box.  The cable card can also replace your main full set top box, and the price would stay the same.

There is recent talk about getting a monthly credit for cable card devices, along with being able to do a self install in all area's, which is not possible currently.  These changes are set to take effect in Aug - Sept time frame.

[KealGSeo]

But on comcast website it actually says:

"Comcast's pricing policy provides your first CableCARD for free.  This applies to TVs and the TiVo Series 3 HD cable box.  Any additional CableCARDs that are required on the same outlet will be subject to a nominal charge.  No additional cards are required for the TV so there is not a charge."

So why does comcast want to charge me for it?

Here is the link if anyone doesn't believe it:

http://customer.comcast.com/Pages/FAQViewer.aspx?Guid=bc5cbbfc-d603-406d-9091-47ec451ead5b&fss=cable...

[JayInAlg]

It's free when it replaces your main box, just as I said.

On the primary outlet with digital service you either get a full set top box or a cable card included in the digital TV price plan subscribed to.

Cable cards used to be cheaper than a full set top box, but last year they jumped in price to the same as a full box, now there is talk of getting a credit off the full price.

No one on this user to user forum would know the reason's why Comcast charges what they do.

[grday]

KealGseo

Are you saying you have only one tv with just a cable card & no other tvs with a cable box?  Then if that is the case, you need to call comcast & tell them the cable card is your primary set & they should be able to remove the fee.

[prlaba]

Comcast's FAQ says nothing about "primary TV" or any such thing.  Here's the text direct from Comcast's "Customer Central" FAQ:

How much will I be charged to use a CableCARD?

The first CableCARD in a retail device (e.g., TiVo devices or CableCARD equipped televisions) is free to Comcast customers. If a second CableCARD is needed for the same device (i.e., TiVo Series 3 boxes), the cost is $1.50 per month for the additional card. Again, this ONLY applies to a second CableCARD in the same device.

My latest Comcast bill includes a $6.45 per month charge for my one and only cablecard in my TiVo HD DVR (which has been installed now for 15 months).  I'd previously been charged $1.50 for the same cablecard.  Of course, neither of those billed amounts agrees with the above stated Comcast prices.

I agree with the earlier comment that Comcast now recognizes that more and more of their customers are using cablecards instead of STB's.  As a result Comcast is now jacking up the cost of their cablecards to be more in line with their traditional cable box fees. 

But couldn't they at least get their story straight and make their advertized pricing agree with their actual billed pricing?

I'll be calling Comcast tomorrow to find out what's going on.  I'm about to install a second TiVo and will need a second cablecard.  No way I'm paying $12.90/month for a pair of cablecards!

[jgianfrancesco]

I asked Comcast this very question tonight.  The purpose of CableCARDs should be to provide consumers with the ability to purchase and own set top boxes that provided the functionality they want while allowing cable providers to maintain security, integrity, and quality of the content provided.  Instead, consumers are being gouged and charged nearly the same price each month for the ability to use the equipment they already own.  The price point currently set on CableCARDs beyond the primary device against the monthly price for a Comcast DVR is clearly designed to persuade consumers into perpetually renting Comcast equipment.

[prlaba]

Update

Apparently Comcast had made an error on my bill.  The charge for a single cable card is $1.50 per month.  If you happen to use a device that requires two cable cards (like some TiVo units that don't accept a single multi-stream cable card), the charge for the second card is the same ($1.50 per month).  However, if you need a second cable card for a different device (e.g., two TiVo boxes, each with their own cable card), then the second cable card will cost you $6.45 per month.

It was disturbing (but not surprising) that I got two different answers from two different Customer Support reps.  I trust the second response more (reflected in this reply) as it makes better sense and is cheaper.

If you do rent cable cards from Comcast, check your monthly bill carefully.  If you're renting a single cable card and see a $6.45 charge on your bill, you're probably being overchaged.  Call Customer Service to correct.

Paul

[toughshed]

Comcast is ripping off the customer and is blatantly ignoring the law.  Here's your rights....

http://www.fcc.gov/guides/cablecard-know-your-rights

Complain!  Report them to the FCC!  It is easy to do.  The whole reason behind the cableCARD technology was to provide competition to the cable industry with regard to equipment selection and use.  Comcast gets around the law by charging you for something THAT IS NOT EVEN LISTED IN THEIR PRICE LIST!!!!!!!  That's against the law!

I'll be reporting them AND getting a credit for all the months that they have been screwing me.

Comcast just sucks...plain and simple...

[toughshed]

Wrong Jay or whoever you are...the word cablecard isn't even in their so called price list.  And just for your info, a cablecard does not provide the same level of service as the set-top box.

Why not just admit that Comcast HATES cablecards because the whole reason they were invented was to COMPETE with Comcast and other cable providers regarding renting of equipment.  Thats why the FCC is involved and authorized to enforce the LAW, which Comcast routinely ignores.

Stop trying to sound like an expert if you don't know what u are talking about...

[Commtech9501]

I am not sure where you guys are located but i just grabbed a rate card from our front counter here in Michigan. They are readily available for customer's here. It clearly has prices listed for cable cards. Now it also might be specific to S.E. Michigan but.....

Cable Card (first card in device) $0.00

Cable Card (second card in same device) $1.50

Customer-owned Video Equipment Crdit $2.50

Also check out  http://www.comcast.com/equipmentpolicy/?SCRedirect=true

Might be different here but doesn't seem to be anything sinister going on to me.

[toughshed]

we are in Colorado....denver area to be exact

[Etirmi]

It's a scam, as was the conversion to digital only forcing you to use their equipment.  It is $1.50 if you don't have one of their boxes, but then you don't have access to on demand.  CableCard 2.0 would have fixed that problem but Comcast in my area refused to get it.  For years they were saying it will come soon.  As for pricing they were charging me 6.45 X 2 for my TIVO.  When they jacked up the price another dollar per CableCard, I told them to take their cards back. 

[ract]

I recently left Comcast and went to FIOS which had been available in my area for some few years. The main reason for the switch was the cable card pricing issue. My story is below.

I had been a cable customer since it was introduced into my area. I don't think that Comcast was the original owner. In any case, I have been pleased with the service for the most part. The TV and internet service has been practically problem free .The internet modem had to be replaced once; until the digital transition, no Comcast equipment was necessary to receive TV service. Since the digital transition, the service calls to my home have increased mainly to install or service Comcast rental equipment for TV service. Most service calls went well with no problems. I have found the local Comcast employees in my area to be helpful and competent.

September 2007, purchased HD TV with QAM tuner and cable card slot. Requested the addition of a cable card for the TV. Cable card installed successfully/activation successful. The monthly bill reflected no charges (installation or reoccurring monthly) for the cable card. I already had the HD DVR service; the cable card allowed me to record two shows while watching the third on the TV.

January 2011, purchased and requested cable card for Tivo to supplement Comcast HD DVR. Due to Comcast digital transition, needed cable card for Tivo. Although most recordings were local network shows (still available via analog signal, SD recordings satisfactory for those shows), some were cable channel (i.e. TNT, USA, & FX) shows that were only available via digital signal. Cable card installed successfully/activation successful. The monthly bill contained the following monthly service charge: Additional outlet service - two cable cards at $9.25 each per month, same as monthly rental for a set top box.. I find it absurd to charge an additional outlet fee for renting a cable card that is equivalent to renting a set top box since it is obvious the cable card has less capability (no VOD, etc.) than the set top box.

I was now being charged monthly for the cable card I had installed in 2007, as well as, the new one for the Tivo. According the annual pricing guide, the monthly rental charge for the first cable card in a device is zero. I complained to corporate and ultimately all charges were removed for all cable cards, which I then had use of for free.

During 2011, enamored with the Tivo DVR, bought two more Tivo DVRs and returned the Comcast HD DVR. Didn't request cable card for new units; most recordings were local network shows (SD recordings still satisfactory for those shows).

January 2012, Comcast announces that it will become all digital, locals no longer available via analog signal. This left me with the necessity to have a cable card for the TV and the three Tivo DVRs (a total of four). I did not want to fight the battle again over cable card pricing, so I switched to FIOS. FIOS charges $3.99 for both digital adapters (Comcast provides for free) and cable cards (Comcast pricing is a crapshoot). At least with FIOS, there is certainty in the pricing for equipment rentals; and FIOS does not have the ridiculously complex, convoluted combination of a "monthly equipment rental" price list and a "monthly digital services" price list, which are subject to interpretation at the whim of the Comcast employee with whom the customer happens to be dealing.

[toughshed]

Their policies are a clear violation of FCC rules, most recently updatred in August 2011.  Everyone needs to complain to the FCC...goggle FCC and cablecards and the link on how to complain will come up...

It's a joke that a company like Comcast can be as big as they are yet have all these little fife-doms that do whatever the heck they want to, especially when it comes to billing.

Xcel (Public Service) used to be the worst with regard to customer service...now it is Cramcast by a mile....

[Commtech9501]

comcast does not charge the same for cable cards as they do cable boxes. i agree that it can be confusing depending on who you speak with on the phone though.

[ract]

The problem goes beyond the mere issue of cable card prices; below is excerpted from an email I wrote to a corporate representative that resulted my getting the two cable cards reduced from $9.25 each to zero each. The excerpt is followed by an excerpt from the current pricing guide (without the footnotes [ftn] which provide little, if any clarity) for my area. To force both the customer and the customer service representatives (CSRs) to depend on this information to try to determine prices is beyond the pale.

To a certain extent, I have a certain amount of sympathy for the CSRs. Comcast has created one of the more convoluted systems for determining service charges. I understand that in such a business as the rapidly expanding telecommunications business and with the associated competition, there has to be a certain flexibility to offer promotional deals and bundles to make services attractive to both new and existing customers. The following statement is a quote from one of the small print items at the bottom of a Comcast web page advertising promotional packages: "After promotional period, or if any service is cancelled or downgraded, regular charges apply." However, such statements are meaningless if a customer cannot determine the "regular prices" and make decisions and understand the financial benefit of the deals and bundles. For the most part, the information provided for the service packages is generally clear.

Most of the confusion revolves around the "monthly equipment rental" price list and the "monthly digital services" price list (see info below from the 2011 pricing guide for my area). As far as I can determine from the most recent pricing guide, the charges for TV equipment in the "monthly equipment rental" list are largely irrelevant. One example of this is the following: (1) The monthly rental charge for a digital converter is $3.70 and the monthly service charge for an additional outlet is $9.25 (there are several additional outlet services at different rates, $9.25 seems to be the most popular); (2) however, the additional outlet service includes the digital converter; (3) therefore, despite my best efforts, I cannot conceive of a scenario under which a customer would pay $3.70 for a digital converter.

This convoluted pricing arrangement does not apply to all equipment rentals or digital services, only digital converters and cable cards. If a customer wants either a DVR or digital adapter, the customer has only to order the service, without having to deal with the complexities of two lists. In particular, this scheme results in a customer having to pay the same monthly charges for a cable card as one does for a digital converter, even though the monthly equipment rental prices are much different. Obviously, the cable card costs to Comcast are less for the cable card since it is, under the federal "separable security" requirement, but one of the many electrical components of the digital converter.

The inability to understand this mess is not limited to the customers. If a customer wants to rent additional equipment, the CSRs quote only the "monthly digital services" list prices and seem to know little about the "monthly equipment rental" list prices. For instance, none of them has yet been able to give me a scenario under which a customer would pay $3.70 for a digital converter. They only quote the "monthly digital services" list prices for additional outlets; although they are not able to explain the difference between the various additional outlet services. The mess of Comcast pricing guide information contrasts sharply from the very simple Verizon pricing system which charges $9.99 for the monthly rental of a set-top box (i.e. digital converter). The pricing guide also contrasts with the information provided for new and existing customers who may wish to order services via the Comcast web page. The web page customer does not have this convoluted mess to deal with; the information provided simply lists the prices for the monthly rental of the equipment -- no dealing with this primary and additional outlet nonsense. However, the web page service does not provide any information as to the prices for cable cards.

Creating all of this confusion might make sense if it generated more revenue (maybe it does and I can't see how). The Comcast prices for the DVR service and additional outlet service (with digital converter included) are competitive with Verizon and the price of the digital adapter service is considerably cheaper. However, for a cable card, the monthly charge seems to vary (from free to whatever) depending on the section of the country the customer lives in or the CSR the customer happens upon during a phone inquiry. In my area, the monthly charge for two cable cards and two digital adapters is $18.50. Despite the fact that Comcast provides the digital adapters at no cost, the monthly charge for same equipment from Verizon is less than $16. Once again, the Comcast pricing system contrasts sharply from the very simple Verizon pricing system which is the uniform nationwide and has a monthly rental fee for a cable card.

I have explored this issue extensively on the various cable TV forums. While there are many queries about technical issues associated with cable cards for most cable TV companies, only Comcast has the overwhelming volume of inquires related to the monthly charge for a cable card. Only Comcast needs special entries on its web page FAQs (see below) to attempt to explain this relationship between the "monthly equipment rental" price list and the "monthly digital services" price list for cable cards. Since the pricing guide provides no price for the customer's "primary outlet fee", it remains a mystery as to whether the first cable card in the customer's primary outlet device is free or not. Also, there is no explanation of terms used or other information to assist the customer in determining what constitutes the customer's primary outlet (assuming the customer has more than one outlet).

MONTHLY EQUIPMENT RENTAL

Remote Control [$0.25]

Digital Converter [$3.70]

(primary outlet, subscription to Family Tier or higher)

Limited Basic Service only Converter [$3.70]

Limited Basic Service only Digital Adapter and Remote Control [No Charge] (Ftn 16)

(up to 2 additional outlets)

(each additional outlet beyond the third, $0.50)

HDTV Digital Converter [$3.70]

(only available to Limited Basic Service only subscribers)

CableCard [No Charge] (Ftn 16)

(first card in device)

CableCard [$1.75] (Ftn 16)

(second card in same device)

Modem Rental [$7.00] (Ftn 10)

MONTHLY DIGITAL SERVICES

Digital Preferred [$17.95] (Ftn 2)

Sports Entertainment Package [$6.95] (Ftn 2)

Digital Video Recorder (DVR) Service [$15.95] (Ftn 5)

(primary outlet or additional outlet)

HD Technology Fee - Primary Outlet [$9.25]

(not available to Limited Basic Service only subscribers)

HD Additional Outlet Service [$9.25]

(each outlet, includes Digital Converter with HDTV capabilities and Remote)

(subscription to the HD Technology Fee on the primary outlet is required)

Digital Adapter Service [No Charge] (Ftn 16, 25, 26)

(includes Adapter and Remote at no additional charge, up to 2 additional outlets)

(each additional outlet beyond the third, $1.99)

Digital Starter Additional Outlet Service [$9.25]

(service on each additional set, includes digital equipment)

Digital Preferred Additional Outlet Service [$9.25]

(service on each additional set, includes digital equipment)

[EmilyHP6]

If anyone is still being charges too much for a 'cablecard' box of any kind, read the following carefully.

 Copied directly from the FCC's Website.

 Consumers’ CableCARD Rights

New rules went into effect on August 8, 2011 that clarified and expanded rights for owners of CableCARD-ready devices. You have the right to: receive accurate information from your cable operator about CableCARDs; install your CableCARD yourself; have a technician show up with the correct number and type of CableCARDs if you opt for professional installation; and receive a discount from a package price if you choose to use your own CableCARD-ready device rather than lease the operator’s set-top box. For more information on your rights, see the CableCARD Rights Guide.

CableCARD: Know Your Rights

New rules went into effect on August 8, 2011, that clarified and expanded rights for owners of CableCARD-ready devices.  Here are a few things you need to know.

• Pay only for equipment you have.  Your operator must give you a discount on any packages that include the price of a set-top box if you choose to use your own CableCARD-enabled device.  FCC Rule 76.1205(b)(5).
• Accurate information on the rental cost of a CableCARD from your provider.  Your operator must list the cost of a CableCARD rental on its website or billing inserts and on its annual rate notice, and must provide you with this information when you call.  FCC Rule 76.1205(b)(5), 76.1602(b).  Typically operators charge $2-4 per month to rent a CableCARD.
• Use your own set-top box without extra charge.  FCC Rule 76.1205(b)(5)(C). Your cable operator may charge you to lease a CableCARD or tuning adapter, but may not charge you an additional service fee for using your own digital-cable-ready television or set-top box. 
• Self-install your CableCARD.  Effective August 8, 2011, cable operators must allow self-installation of CableCARDs if they allow self-installation of other equipment, such as digital boxes or cable modems.  By November 1, 2011, all cable operators must allow self-installation of CableCARDs.  Your operator may decline your request for self-installation if your equipment manufacturer or vendor does not provide you with instructions on how to install a CableCARD and offer a toll-free telephone number for product support.  FCC Rule 76.1205(b)(1).
• Receive the number of CableCARDs you request.  If you opt for a professional installation by your cable operator, the technician must arrive with at least the number of CableCARDs you request.  FCC Rule 76.1205(b)(3). If you opt for self installation your operator must provide them to you through their normal self-installation procedures (for example by mailing them to you or letting you pick them up at the operator’s local retail location).  Some CableCARD devices may require two CableCARDs to access all features.  Refer to your user manual for more information.
• Receive a multi-stream CableCARD unless you request otherwise.  FCC Rule 76.1205(b)(2).  If you have a retail device with more than one tuner and that device supports multi-stream CableCARDs, one multi-stream CableCARD can allow you to access multiple simultaneous channels. 
• Receive all “linear” channels (channels other than “on-demand”) in your subscription package.  This includes premium channels and specialty channels.  For some channels delivered using a technique called “switched digital video,” you may need a second device called a “tuning adapter.”  This device is typically provided at no additional charge to CableCARD customers.  FCC Rule 76.1205(b)(4).  CableCARD-ready devices currently cannot receive your cable operator’s Video on Demand services. 
• Get accurate information about services available to CableCARD subscribers.  FCC Rule 76.1205(c).

If your cable operator does not resolve your concern, you may file a complaint with the FCC and/or your local franchise authority.  To file your complaint with the Commission, click on www.fcc.gov/complaints.

For more information about CableCARDs, go to: http://www.fcc.gov/guides/digital-cable-compatibility-cablecard-ready-devices.

For more information pertaining to the Media Bureau, please call:  (202) 418-7200.

FCC > Media Bureau

Bureaus & Offices: Media

• Printer-friendly version

Copied directly from the Comcast Website

How much will I be charged to use a CableCARD?

The first CableCARD in a retail device (e.g., TiVo devices or CableCARD equipped televisions) is free to Comcast customers.  If a second CableCARD is needed for the same device (i.e., TiVo Series 3 boxes), the cost is $1.50 per month for the additional card.   Again, this ONLY applies to a second CableCARD in the same device.

[lmdriscol]

I am getting nowhere with the Chat Technician - I just noticed that instead of being charged $1.50 for my second Cable Card, I am now being charged an $8.95 Digital Access Fee.  Chat Tech says I got a free trial of this fee which is why I didn't pay it until a few months ago.  I do not understand what this fee is for - and doesn't that go against the previous post where it said that Comcast cannot charge me a fee to use my own equipment (a Tivo Premiere)?

[scrapplejoe]

Here is my bill...

https://public.sn2.livefilestore.com/y1pleyk0DxdasQn-_6i4OjaH3apkpjhQOGQEW07JtI4-Kij5YDjD_IkrWQDhJL7...

Am i getting charge $9.25 for my 3 cablecards?

[toughshed]

Complain to the FCC...the whole reason the FCC had to get involved in the first place was this type of abuse.  Comcast serves the public domain and only exists because governments and local communities alow them to.HAVE YOUR CONCERN ESCALATED AT COMCAST TILL YOU GET SATISFACTION AND TELL THEM THAT YOU ARE NOTIFYING THE FCC.

[Mike3000]

Got a Tivo requiring 2 cablecards late in 2007. Paid $0 for the first and $1.50 for the second. A couple of months ago Comcast started charging me $8.95 for each of them. I've called them many times on this but have gotten nowhere. Reasons I've been given range from it's becuase I have cable boxes as well as the Tivo but I point out this was true all along. Then they said it was because of the change to HD but I pointed out that I've had HD since 07 and the pricing change just happened. Told that it was a pricing change that just isn't reflected on their web site that still shows the first one free and the second on in same device $1.50. Pricing list sent to me in March listed this as well. Price increase was applie

I really can't take the time to  write everything I've been told and how every rep says something different. You can tell they just want to rope a dope you till you go away.

I do plan on filing a complaint with the FCC but figure it will do little good. I'm sure it will just be filed with a mountain of other complaints. If complaints did any good something would already have been done with Comcast.

[ecolive]

Same here... Until sept last year I was paying 1.50 for the first comcast cablecard and 1.50 for the second. Form oct/2011 on they are charging me the full price 9.99 + some HD fee. I am not a happy camper. I will be complaining to the FCC and to the BBB (Better business bureau), as well as to the FTC (Federal Trade Comission)... let us all do that, alone we are weak, but together we can change this !!!

[Mike3000]

Got my problem resolved sort of. I got rid of every comcast box in my house so all I had left was TIVO. E mailed to comcast "contact us" and got the same answer 3 times. The first card is free the second is $1.18 in my area.

With this I started calling billing again. When I brougt up the E mails they at least started taking  me seriously. Rep said she would check into it and get back to me by next day. 3 days later still not answer. Called to try to get this rep and see what she found out but the rep I was asking to transfer me turned out to know the billing of cable cards. I am now back the $0 for first and $1.18 for second.

I plan on getting a second TIVO that will require 2 M cards. I have Emails that say the second TIVO will again be 0 for first card and $1.18 for second. My guess is I will have problems again but with the E mails for support will eventually prevail. The price is the same whether you have M cards or S cards.

Hope you also get it corrected in the end. Also don't let them tell you there is a fee for each outlet for HD. there is a fee but it covers the whole house and as many outlets as you have.

If your package includes the price of a box, which it almost surely does, then they also owe you a monthly payment. My area is $2.50 a month since my package includes a cable box and I supply my own equipment (the Tivo).

[wb4whd]

Ummm yes Comcast does screw customers on this. I was originally charged $1.38 for Tivo CableCARDS on my bill. Then suddenly, about Jan 2011 they started charging me $9.95 a month for set top boxes I never had. When I complained, they said it was a mis-label on my bill but the right charge. They changed the bill to 4@Digital Service outlets $9.95 a month. They claimed they couldn't list Tivo CableCARDS on the billing system anymore.

When I saw this article today and read the FCC law on this, I called the FCC about it and sent them a copy of my bill. They said the charges are in violation of the law that the bill MUST show CableCARDS and a price per card of $2-$4 max. (The CableCARDS only cost Comcast $30 a piece to buy per an installation manager I spoke with).

I argued with Comcast today and they finally relented and updated my bill to Tivo CableCARD @ $1.38 each. I asked what about all the excess money you over-charged me last 2 years. They submitted a refund request with management. Additionally, per FCC law if your cable plan normally include their $9.95 a month box which mine does and you use your own, they are supposed to discount the monthly price by $9.95 a month so my plan should be $69 a month not $79.

[wb4whd]

Yes they are over-charging you like they were me.

[jameszieglar702]

Reporting to the FCC, the BBB, and the FTC, are three of the ways to get it all done to clean up all this law-breaking bureaucracy, and it is about that time that a retribution of a revolution for darn sure to take place !  Let's Fight, and God is with us!

[jethbu]

They are charging me 7.45 for my CableCard.

On my Bill it is listed as :

Digital Additional

Outlet Service Charge (with CableCard)

includes Customer-Owned Video Equipment Credit

[Larry1236]

@wb4whd

How did you find out about the $9.95 per month off your bill?  I had a cable set top box.  I added a CableCard.  When I did this they started charging me an additional $9.95 per month.  I then had to deactive my Motorola Digital receiver set top box in order to avoid the $9.95 per month charge.

Are you stating that because I am using TIVO (3rd party box) with my Comcast CableCard I should receive an additional $9.95 credit?  Do you know where that is documented?