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Contributor
linengray
Posts: 11
Registered: ‎06-28-2012

Fed up with Cable and Pulling the Plug

I created an account just to post this.

 

Yesterday morning I woke up to find that Comcast, in my area, dropped 2 what we consider local channels, from our market. These channels are in the San Francisco Bay area.

 

I live outside San Francisco and commute there regularly. I rely on watching the news on those channels every day for weather and traffic among the other local programming they provide.

 

I called Comcast to complain. I told them there was no message in the message center on my dvr about the change. They said they put it on the bill. Well I have autopay and don't see a bill. FAIL.

 

They gave me some rote corporate speak about the provider who bundles services. Then they said that NO television service provider in my area would be carrying these channels. Really?

 

I called the 2 stations this morning and they said that Comcast had sent them a letter stating they were being dropped from the entire Sacramento viewing area, which we fall under.

 

Really! Let me put this in prospective for you.

Sacramento is located in Northern California

Sacramento is the capitol of the State of California.

San Francisco is the nearest major city in Northern California.

So if you live in or near the capitol of the State of California you can no longer watch 2 of the 3 San Francisco area television channels. Really!

 

They left us one Bay area channel. It only broadcasts a 'talk show' style morning news program. I don't want fluff I want information.

 

The 2 channels they unceremoniously dropped, KRON and KTVU, provided us with the only major live coverage of the 89 quake and San Bruno pipeline explosions. Without them we would have had little to no live information on what was happening. We rely on them for our Bay area news.

 

Yes one of the dropped channels was a Fox affiliate and we had 3 in our listing. If Comcast felt there was too much Fox, and no I am not a Fox fan, then block the duplicate programs when they air but don't take away the entire channel.

 

Think about this in relation to where you live. You live near a major city. There are local channels that you watch daily for news, weather and traffic. You wake up one morning to find them gone, with warning that was provided in some fine print somewhere that you had to search to find. How would you feel?

 

I have been a cable subscriber since it first was introduced back in the 60's. Yes that is correct I said the 60's. That is when the cable system, as you know it today, started in Canada. If you don't believe that look it up. And yes it means I am that old.

 

If I added up the amount of money I have paid cable providers over the years they should give me a solid gold cable remote.

 

But this is the straw that has finally broken this camel's back. I am fed up.

 

I have put up with the arbitrary bundling of channels. The excessively high and disproportionate rates. But no more. 

 

Now that the internet can provide me with television I am pulling the plug on cable.

 

By the way I am I fortunate to have enough tech knowledge that I know better than to get my internet through Comcast. If you do then I truly I feel sorry for you.

 

Some of you may think this a rash decision by some senior citizen over losing 2 television channels. Like an old man yelling at kids to get off his lawn.

 

Well it is not. I have been fed up with the cable system for many years now. For exactly the reasons I stated. This was just the final arbitrary decision that made me say enough!

 

I will take my $128 per month and use it for something more important.

Contributor
linengray
Posts: 11
Registered: ‎06-28-2012

Re: Fed up with Cable and Pulling the Plug

Come on Comcast over 350 reads to this posting and you don't even want to reply?

 

I would have thought that you might speak up. Even if it was just some corporate speak reply. Usually silence means you have no valid response.

 

That is what I love about customer service today. Ignore any customer who tells the truth you do not want to hear.

 

Shame on you for being so bottom line focused and share holder weak.

 

The really sad thing is that all the things I said are true and not one person at Comcast would even, in their most remote dreams, reconsider this decision.

 

Why not rethink making very large demographic markets happy in whatever regions of this country you have quietly pulled these stunts.

 

Or do you need to preserve your precious bandwidth in order to provide another 15 versions of HBO, Showtime, Encore, etc. because that is where you make your money?

 

You have such a monopolistic strangle hold on television viewing and yet people are not as fed up with you as they should be.

 

Give them their sports packages, movie channels and be darned with any local television programming. Yes I wrote "darned" because according to your site the word d a m n is a bad word. Really?

 

Believe me I am not leaving the satellite providers in this country off the hook. It is just that I have been a customer of yours for more years than I should be and I have watched you change for the worse not the better.

Regular Problem Solver
edpeters
Posts: 1,454
Registered: ‎12-13-2007

Re: Fed up with Cable and Pulling the Plug

[ Edited ]

This is a "user" forum, and although there are some Comcast employees that read threads here, they will quite regularly not respond to something they are unable to provide a reasonable explanation for (Can't spin it in their favor).  So, about the best you're going to get here is that ability to rant and readers like me who share your pain.  You can try sending your information to the following two places to get more exposure to your concerns,,

 

Brian Roberts, CEO
Comcast Corporate Office
1500 Market Street
Philadelphia, PA 19102
215-286-8960

brian_roberts@comcast.com

 

Also you can email the we can help team.

To get help, you can drop a note to Comcast corporate customer service (we_can_help@cable.comcast.com).

For the quickest response, please include:
Your full name;
Service address;
Phone number & an alternate number if possible;
Account number;
A link to your post.

Contributor
linengray
Posts: 11
Registered: ‎06-28-2012

Re: Fed up with Cable and Pulling the Plug

Thank you edpeters. I did not expect a response from Comcast but I thought I would give it a shot.

 

I also realistically know I will not receive any solution to my concern. That is why I posted on here that my intentions are to finally drop cable.

 

I have sent letters to corporations over the years and the number of responses there were not  autogenerated (thank for your concern blah, blah) I can count on one hand.

 

I number of companies that have actually taken my concern or suggestion to heart and made a change in their product or policy I can count on less than that.

 

My main point was to get people to see that they should not just accept what is given to them if they feel it is unjust.

 

If more Comcasters were to speak up and not just lay back and take the pain maybe things would get better.

 

Oh and one last thing. I made a comment about a similar situation in post that came from a user in Minnesota. The response from Comcast was to 're'move my post because they said I comparing an issue in California to one in Minnesota and that was not right. Well ain't that special.

 

Now that is customer service!

Moderator
ComcastTeds
Posts: 2,036
Registered: ‎01-09-2012

Re: Fed up with Cable and Pulling the Plug


linengray wrote:

Thank you edpeters. I did not expect a response from Comcast but I thought I would give it a shot.

 

I also realistically know I will not receive any solution to my concern. That is why I posted on here that my intentions are to finally drop cable.

 

I have sent letters to corporations over the years and the number of responses there were not  autogenerated (thank for your concern blah, blah) I can count on one hand.

 

I number of companies that have actually taken my concern or suggestion to heart and made a change in their product or policy I can count on less than that.

 

My main point was to get people to see that they should not just accept what is given to them if they feel it is unjust.

 

If more Comcasters were to speak up and not just lay back and take the pain maybe things would get better.

 

Oh and one last thing. I made a comment about a similar situation in post that came from a user in Minnesota. The response from Comcast was to 're'move my post because they said I comparing an issue in California to one in Minnesota and that was not right. Well ain't that special.

 

Now that is customer service!


Your post was moved for two reasons: One, it was a duplicate post to this one,  second it was posted in a topic that was specific to a situation in Minnesota where the original question was resolved. 

 

I am gathering some additional information regarding your concern. 

Service Expert
Queen-Evie
Posts: 12,316
Registered: ‎02-04-2004

Re: Fed up with Cable and Pulling the Plug


linengray wrote:

 

 I called Comcast to complain. I told them there was no message in the message center on my dvr about the change. They said they put it on the bill. Well I have autopay and don't see a bill. FAIL.

 

 



You can get a copy of your bill online. Even those who have ecobill should at least look at the .pdf copy each month to make sure there are no billing errors. Since it is an exact copy of your bill the notices will be on it.

 

HOW TO GET A COPY OF YOUR PAPER BILL ONLINE (clickable link)



 


Comcast employees must be authorized to post in the forum. Employees posting here have their names in red and are designated as employees. Names not in red are customers.

Moderator
ComcastTeds
Posts: 2,036
Registered: ‎01-09-2012

Re: Fed up with Cable and Pulling the Plug

[ Edited ]

Apologies that you did not receive the information regarding the announced channel changes. 

 

Comcast is in complete compliance with all of the current FCC regulations and our own policies regarding the cable carriage of the broadcast TV stations in your area.

 

Comcast does not have the rights to offer the recently removed San Francisco based TV stations in Lodi, CA at this time.

 

The broadcast TV stations that were removed from your area were considered "out-of- market" by the FCC and Nielsen Media Research who determine the in-market and out-of-market TV stations for the United States.

 

-       KRON-TV (San Francisco) was removed from the channel lineups in Lodi and Stockton

-       KTVU-TV (Oakland) and KOFY-TV (San Francisco) were removed from the channel lineup in Lodi 

 

The stations above are considered part of the San Francisco-Oakland-San Jose TV market.

 

Your area of Lodi, CA is assigned to the Sacramento-Stockton-Modesto TV market (DMA). Lodi is about 34 miles away from Sacramento and about 67 miles away from San Francisco.

 

The out of market TV stations that were removed are mostly (with the exception of local news and sports offerings) duplicate coverage of programming that are already available to you from Sacremento-based channels already available in your area.

 

There are significant costs and copyright fees associated with bringing in out-of-market broadcast TV stations to another market. 

 

If we were to continue offering these these San Francisco based channels, most all of the programming would be subject to black out for network non-duplication so the channel would not have much on it most of the time.  

 

Also, by removing these out of market broadcast stations, we are able to free up bandwidth (channel space) for other non-duplicative programming that may be added soon. 

 

myTV programming in your area is available on KQCA and Fox programming can be found on KTXC. These Sacramento -based TV stations are considered in-market for Lodi, CA. 

 

The terms "DMA", "out of market", "significantly viewed" and "network non-duplication" all have extensive definitions and examples, some links below that will make for some good reading:

 

DMA: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Designated_market_area

 

Out of market and Significantly Viewed: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Significantly_viewed_out_of_market_TV_stations_in_the_United_States

 

Network non-duplication http://law.justia.com/cfr/title47/47-4.0.1.1.4.6.3.1.html

 

  

You can certainly contact the FCC about any questions on the "significantly viewed" definition or contact Nielsen regarding the current DMA designation for your area.  

 

Try here: http://www.fcc.gov/contact-us

And here:  http://www.fcc.gov/guides/broadcast-information-specialists

 

If it is important for you to view these over-the-air stations from San Francisco (67 or so miles away from Lodi), you may be able to receive them over the air with an antenna depending on your location and surrounding terrain. 

 

The links I provided above and below should provide some additional detailed information. Thanks for your interest.

 

Broadcast Over-The-Air coverage for TV Stations in the Sacramento-Stockton-Modesto DMA

http://transition.fcc.gov/dtv/markets/maps_current/Sacramento-Stockton-Modesto_CA.pdf

 

Broadcast Over-The-Air coverage for TV Stations in the San-Francisco-San Jose DMA

http://transition.fcc.gov/dtv/markets/maps_current/San_Francisco-Oakland-San_Jose_CA.pdf

 

 

Regular Contributor
BPreston
Posts: 48
Registered: ‎11-11-2011

Re: Fed up with Cable and Pulling the Plug

Hopefully, a roof antenna will get you good reception of the lost stations. I have family members who live atop a hill in Oroville, and they're able to pick up Chico, Sacramento and San Francisco stations--in HD--with a top-of-the-line antenna. That's two ABC affiliates (one O&O), three CBS affiliates (two O&Os), three NBC affiliates (one O&O), three Fox affiliates, and a multitude of independents (including KRON), "netlets" and "diginets" for nothing but the cost of the electricity to run the television. I envy them; if I could pick up that many stations where I live, I'd cut the cord.

I wish you the best of luck, Linengray.
Bronze Star Contributor
Posts: 105
Registered: ‎05-23-2009

Re: Fed up with Cable and Pulling the Plug

Unfortunately, this seems to be one of those situations where facts don't matter and the OP merely wants to rant about Comcast.

He lives nearly 70 miles away from SF, and his local Sacramento affiliates provide the same network programming. It's apparently Comcast's fault that he commutes so far and wants to see local weather or traffic in SF.

Perhaps the Internet can provide traffic and weather for SF? Either that or move closer to SF.
Regular Contributor
BPreston
Posts: 48
Registered: ‎11-11-2011

Re: Fed up with Cable and Pulling the Plug

[ Edited ]

To be fair, though, importing out-of-town stations was originally the cable industry (originally known as "community antenna television")'s bread-and-butter. That's how WTBS Atlanta, WGN Chicago, and WOR New York became known as "superstations": widespread national coverage via cable. Unfortunately, FCC regulations have since severely regulated the practice. But if the original poster has had cable since the '60s, he originally became acquainted with the service as a handful of out-of-market channels, and maybe a channel or two showing a closeup of a newsticker.

 

When cable came to my home town (Spokane, WA) in 1976, the channels available were the four local stations available at the time, KSTW Tacoma, CBUT Vancouver, a few educational channels provided by the local school district and a government access channel. The two out-of-town stations were the big draw, until speicalty channels like CNN and MTV were added in the early '80s.

New Visitor
nasdaqyc
Posts: 2
Registered: ‎06-21-2010

Re: Fed up with Cable and Pulling the Plug

[ Edited ]

I live in the Yuba-Sutter area and we have lost 5 channels in about six months. During that time cable prices have increased. We just had KICU and a local NBC affiliate deleted by comcast. Earlier they deleted TCM, KGO (San Francisco) and TruTV. Comcast is making easier and easier about looking into Direct TV and Dish. I remember watching KGO since I was a little kid and now all of a sudden they delete it.

 

I have been talking to a DirectTv rep for the past couple of days and they are looking better and better compared to comcast. I have a feeling that they are not done getting rid of channels yet, which will make the switch to Direct Tv way easier.

Contributor
SanDiegoInExile
Posts: 21
Registered: ‎10-07-2011

Re: Fed up with Cable and Pulling the Plug

DirecTV and Dish aren't going to be able to provide local stations to those living outside the DMA.  There are tricks to get around that, such as claiming you live at a phantom address.  As for losing specific non-broadcast channels, such as TCM and TruTV, those channels were moved to a different tier.  You either pay up or look elsewhere.  

 

Of course,right now DISH is tossing aside 3 channels, claiming those channels want too much per subscriber.  Providers will always re-jigger lineups. 

Contributor
linengray
Posts: 11
Registered: ‎06-28-2012

Re: Fed up with Cable and Pulling the Plug

Dear Skyhawk tell me try and explain this to you since you do not live in this area.

 

This OP did not want to just rant about Comcast. If you had read my entire post you would have read that I have been a loyal cable subscriber since the 60's.

 

If this had been a post just to rant about Comcast I would have posted something on here a long time ago.

 

Since you do not know this area, because you live in the southeast, let me educate you a little.

 

The Comcast service area I live in serves approximately 1 million people. Yes that is correct 1 million maybe somewhere in about what Comcast covers in the Atlanta area.

 

Of those 1 million people approximate 350,000 of us commute the 3 hours each way into San Francisco daily. That ain't no 70 miles honey.

 

Let me also add that this '70 mile' trip that takes 3 hours involves commuter trains, 3 bridges 2 of which are tolled and ferries. I believe those factors add a level of difficulty to any 70 mile trip to work.

 

Does that paint a better picture for you sweetie?

 

If the only two channels that provide traffic and weather continuously to those of us who commute everyday are no longer available I say that is a valid reason to 'rant' as you put it.

 

Your sarcastic and non witty comments about either using the Internet or moving closer to the city were pathetic.

 

Maybe you are the OP who posted just to rant.

 

These channels have been provided to this area since Comcast took over from the previous cable provider.

 

I will be addressing ComcastTeds post about the 'facts'. The reason I will do that because I received a call from Comcast corporate office about my 'rant'.

 

SkyhawkDriver I have put my action where my rant is. As of this Saturday I will, after 50 years, no longer be a Comcast customer.

 

One last thing I am not a He! Never assume.

 

I hope you are enjoying the weather in Atlanta.

 

New Visitor
nasdaqyc
Posts: 2
Registered: ‎06-21-2010

Re: Fed up with Cable and Pulling the Plug

Same here I have had KGO (San Francisco) ever since I could remember, and that is going through about 4-5 cable companies, then all of sudden bam it is gone. As far as the local NBC channel that was just lost I have another local NBC affiliate but I liked that fact that it had different programing during that day time.

 

So after all these channel deletions we are left with one bay area channel, KTVU Channel 2. Like I said I have been talking to a Direct TV rep and with the way comcast is working I am sure KTVU will be gone soon, and so will I to Direct TV once that happens.

Silver Problem Solver
rog286713
Posts: 14,000
Registered: ‎06-17-2008

Re: Fed up with Cable and Pulling the Plug

I suggest you read this whole thread.  Its not up to comcast what channels are zone for them to carry, directv will not have those channles either. 

Contributor
linengray
Posts: 11
Registered: ‎06-28-2012

Re: Fed up with Cable and Pulling the Plug

Dear ComcastTeds thank you for your response.

 

You provided a lot of wonderful corporate speak and hyperlinks in your post. I just want to address a couple of the statements in your post.

 

I am going to do this based on the 45 minute conversation that I had with your corporate office who called me about this issue.

 

First, this has nothing to do with FCC regulations as you tried to suggest. It was purely a marketing decision. You alluded to that when when you mentioned Nielsen Media Research. It is all about the market and has nothing to do with any federal compliance as you intimated.

 

Second, the head office confirmed that the notification, or should I say lack of, was handled very poorly.

 

If Comcast suddenly lost the rights to broadcast these channels then they should have done a much better job of communicating that to their customers.

 

Comcast is all about communication aren't they?

 

Third, to reduce my concern to an over simplified statement that I live 34 or 67 miles from San Francisco was insulting. You show an absolute ignorance of the area in which I live. Only a statistician would reduce reality to a simple numbers statement. Yes, that was meant be be insulting.

 

Fourth, as to the 'fact' that there are 'significant costs and fees' involved in providing these channels. I thought that was the reason why we, as Comcast customers, pay the significant cable bills we do each month? We don't do it out of charity. We do it to receive the services your company purports to offer.

 

What has blacking out duplicate programming have to do with anything? Does it cost more to black out programming? How is that a valid reason for this decision? I think it was just another rote answer to include in your excuse soup.

 

I love that you think that I am under-educated enough that I would believe your statement that dropping these two low bandwidth channels will free up bandwidth. That was humourous. However, I am afraid some people would actually believe this 'fact' to be true. It is not.

 

You want to free up bandwidth stopping broadcasting duplicates of almost every premium level channel. HGTV, National Geographic, QVC, MSNBC, Fox News, Disney, Gameshow Network, E!, etc. Must we have 2 of each of these channels? Also just how many sports channels does this country really need?

 

You want bandwidth clean up your channel line up where it really counts not based on two local channels.

 

I think Comcast has become too sports heavy and too content shy. Oh wait, that is where you make most of your money. Doh! My bad for stating the obvious.

 

Comcast just gave the single digit salute to up to 350,000 customers in my area and maybe more.

 

Hooray for marketing.

 

Well, all I can say is so long and thanks for all the fish.

 

 

 

 

Moderator
ComcastTeds
Posts: 2,036
Registered: ‎01-09-2012

Re: Fed up with Cable and Pulling the Plug

[ Edited ]

linengray - Certainly I realize and understand that these San Francisco-based channels are important to you. I can appreciate that and did not intend to dismiss that.

 

That does not change that these channels are considered out-of-market broadcast TV stations for your area as defined by the FCC and Nielsen Media.

 

I provided those links to show that detail and the rules around some of the requirements and decisions that were made, Apologies if this appeared to be overkill on my end and agreed that the initial customer communication regarding these changes could have been communicated better. 

 

To further clarify, duplicate "mirrored" channels (like having HGTV on two separate channels in the lineup ) do not take up additional bandwidth.

The multiple channel locations are simply presented as an optional channel entry points for our customers. They take up no additional bandwidth

 

Offering two mostly duplicate channels from two different DMAs (as with two separate Fox affiliates) does take up additional valuable bandwidth.

 

I wish you success in locating a video provider that offers these out of market stations to you based on your zip code (I used 95240 in my search).

 

I looked around and could not locate a video provider in your area that offers any San Francisco-based broadcast stations. 

 

Dish Network and DirecTV also offer the Sacramento- based broadcast channels for your area, also following the current FCC and Nielsen Media requirements.   

 

As I mentioned previously, if it is important for you to view these over-the-air stations from San Francisco (67 or so miles away from Lodi), you may be able to receive them (for free) over the air with an antenna depending on your location and surrounding terrain. 

 

You may be able to watch the KRON News online at their website: http://www.kron.com/News/WatchOnline.aspx

 

 
Regular Problem Solver
edpeters
Posts: 1,454
Registered: ‎12-13-2007

Re: Fed up with Cable and Pulling the Plug

Is Comcast talking to the FCC to see if they can get around or modify this situation?  You do seem to have a pretty big clout with the FCC...

Moderator
ComcastTeds
Posts: 2,036
Registered: ‎01-09-2012

Re: Fed up with Cable and Pulling the Plug


edpeters wrote:

Is Comcast talking to the FCC to see if they can get around or modify this situation?  You do seem to have a pretty big clout with the FCC...


 

We are not pursuing making any changes or FCC requests to add these out-of-market broadcast stations from the San Francisco DMA into the Sacramento DMA.

 

Contributor
linengray
Posts: 11
Registered: ‎06-28-2012

Re: Fed up with Cable and Pulling the Plug

ComcastTeds I have talked to other Comcast customers in other markets and they receive out of market channels. Some channels are over 100 miles away.

 

So the question still remains why can other areas which Comcast serves receive out of market channels but others cannot?

 

Also as I mentioned before why was this suddenly changed. I have been receiving these channels on Comcast for years. Now suddenly they are removed.

 

Your explanation still is not adequate.

 

I would like you to post a link to where in the FCC regulations it states the limitations to which channels Comcast is able to provide.

 

As edpeters wrote Comcast, which has a near monoply on cable television along with Dish and DirectTV have a lot of clout with the FCC.

 

So use your influence. Don't tell us you don't have any.

Contributor
linengray
Posts: 11
Registered: ‎06-28-2012

Re: Fed up with Cable and Pulling the Plug

I did a little research myself and found the following. Some cable providers, with out of market and redundant affiliate stations, have moved over the out of market stations to digital cable channels 100 and above.

 

This has happened before in other areas of the country.

 

Comcast does have the ability to provide these channels. Other cable providers have pulled the plug on local affiliates and due to pressure from viewers restored these channels. They put them in another tier of their cable lineup.

 

These moves are done by cable companies to preserve the bandwidth for channels 2 to 13 that you mentioned,

 

So preserve this bandwidth and restore these channels to a different digital channels.

 

As it was mentioned in another post today cable television content is much more focused on premium channel programming than the original purpose of picking up local programming from television stations in a specific area.

 

The FCC passed a mandate in 2005 to keep in-market local affiliates. 

 

However, other cable providers, since 2005, have found solutions to this FCC mandate to satisfy out of market programming.

 

So don't quote FCC and Neilsen Media and say these channels need to be removed.

 

Comcast could restore these channels if they wanted to. They have moved other channels around before and they could do it again. Other cable providers have done this service for their customers.

 

Oh and by the way what took you so long to fulfill the FCC mandate that was set in 2005? Seven years is a long time to be out of compliance don't you think?

 

Contributor
linengray
Posts: 11
Registered: ‎06-28-2012

Re: Fed up with Cable and Pulling the Plug

Just to let you know there is a list from the FCC on significantly viewe channels.

Here are the counties in Northern California that are allowed to get a least one of the Bay area channels Comcast removed:

Tulare

Sutter

Solano East - they are allowed both Sacramento, Stockton and Bay channels.

Sierra - Reno area

Nevada East - Reno area

Lake

 

I did not list the counties in the bay area.

 

For those of us in this area that is an interesting list.

 

Recognized Contributor
medziatkowicz
Posts: 412
Registered: ‎12-26-2011

Re: Fed up with Cable and Pulling the Plug

does this mean that other areas the receive out of market channels will lose them as well? I don't want to lose the pittsburgh,pa locals.

Bronze Problem Solver
commanguy
Posts: 3,940
Registered: ‎01-11-2010

Re: Fed up with Cable and Pulling the Plug

Well if that is the case I lose the majority of the channels I pay for on Limited Basic. According to the FCC maps my county doesn't fall into the DMA service areas.

Of course the only one that would be a duplication of a network would be the one CBS station. The rest have no other nearby feeds.

And they are out of range for OTA.

Would probably keep the 3 national Cable networks, the 4 shopping channels, the spanish language network, and the 2 religious networks plus the local CBS feed.

I would expect a serious reduction in rates if that was the case.

Moderator
ComcastTeds
Posts: 2,036
Registered: ‎01-09-2012

Re: Fed up with Cable and Pulling the Plug

[ Edited ]

medziatkowicz wrote:

does this mean that other areas the receive out of market channels will lose them as well? I don't want to lose the Pittsburgh,pa locals.



Your inquiry with the Pittsburgh TV stations was addressed directly earlier. The out-of market TV stations from the Pittsburgh DMA that are currently offered on your cable system in WV qualify as "significantly viewed" in your area by the FCC definition.

 

That situation does not apply with this customer's area. 

Moderator
ComcastTeds
Posts: 2,036
Registered: ‎01-09-2012

Re: Fed up with Cable and Pulling the Plug


commanguy wrote:

Well if that is the case I lose the majority of the channels I pay for on Limited Basic. According to the FCC maps my county doesn't fall into the DMA service areas.

Of course the only one that would be a duplication of a network would be the one CBS station. The rest have no other nearby feeds.

And they are out of range for OTA.

Would probably keep the 3 national Cable networks, the 4 shopping channels, the Spanish language network, and the 2 religious networks plus the local CBS feed.

I would expect a serious reduction in rates if that was the case.


Depends on what area (DMA) you live in and whether the out-if-market broadcast TV stations are classified as "significantly viewed" as defined by the FCC.

 

 

Some good reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Significantly_viewed_out_of_market_TV_stations_in_the_United_States

 

http://transition.fcc.gov/mb/significantviewedstations031011.pdf

Moderator
ComcastTeds
Posts: 2,036
Registered: ‎01-09-2012

Re: Fed up with Cable and Pulling the Plug

[ Edited ]

linengray wrote:

I did a little research myself and found the following. Some cable providers, with out of market and redundant affiliate stations, have moved over the out of market stations to digital cable channels 100 and above.

 

This has happened before in other areas of the country.

 

Comcast does have the ability to provide these channels. Other cable providers have pulled the plug on local affiliates and due to pressure from viewers restored these channels. They put them in another tier of their cable lineup.

 

These moves are done by cable companies to preserve the bandwidth for channels 2 to 13 that you mentioned,

 

So preserve this bandwidth and restore these channels to a different digital channels.

 

As it was mentioned in another post today cable television content is much more focused on premium channel programming than the original purpose of picking up local programming from television stations in a specific area.

 

The FCC passed a mandate in 2005 to keep in-market local affiliates. 

 

However, other cable providers, since 2005, have found solutions to this FCC mandate to satisfy out of market programming.

 

So don't quote FCC and Nielsen Media and say these channels need to be removed.

 

Comcast could restore these channels if they wanted to. They have moved other channels around before and they could do it again. Other cable providers have done this service for their customers.

 

Oh and by the way what took you so long to fulfill the FCC mandate that was set in 2005? Seven years is a long time to be out of compliance don't you think?

 


Comcast is required to carry the TV Stations that are in your TV market (Sacramento) either via Must-carry or retransmission consent as declared by the in-market TV Station. We do that.

 

Must Carry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Must-carry

Retransmission consent:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retransmission_consent

 

Comcast is not required to offer TV Stations that are out of market (from San Francisco) unless they are defined as "significantly viewed" in your area. The San Francisco based channels that were dropped in your area are out of market and don't meet the definition of significantly viewed in your area by the FCC. 

 

Comcast does still offer a San Francisco based TV station in your area. 

 

Due to costs, bandwidth management and the fact that the recently dropped channels were mostly duplicative of the in-market Sacramento based channels that you already receive, Comcast made a decision not to incur (and pass on) additional costs and free up bandwidth by not offering these out-of-market TV stations. 

 

I understand that you don't agree with that decision and I wish you success in locating a video provider that offers these out of market stations to you based on your zip code (I used 95240 in my search). I could not locate any that did.

 

As previously posted, you can certainly contact the FCC about any questions on the "significantly viewed" definition or contact Nielsen regarding the current DMA designation for your area.  

 

Try here: http://www.fcc.gov/contact-us

And here:  http://www.fcc.gov/guides/broadcast-information-specialists

 

 

One more link to add: http://transition.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Cable/News_Releases/nrcb4009.txt

 

excerpted below

 

Q:  The channel line-up on my cable system has changed, some stations are on different
channel numbers, some stations have been dropped and some stations have been added.
The cable company says that the changes are due to FCC regulations.  What are these
regulations?

A:  The 1992 Cable Act created new rights for television broadcast stations and new
responsibilities for cable operators.  As a result, the new FCC regulations require a cable
operator to get permission from the broadcast station to put the station on cable.  A local
broadcast station may give permission by choosing mandatory carriage (must-carry) on the
cable system, or by negotiating an agreement for carriage of its signal by the cable company
(retransmission consent).  A broadcast station which chooses retransmission consent may
request some form of payment for the use of its broadcast signal on the cable system, and
must negotiate for both its carriage on that system and its channel position.  A broadcast
station choosing must-carry can generally select (from a set of limited options) its channel
position.

A cable operator must set aside up to a maximum of one-third of its channel capacity for
local commercial television stations.  A cable operator is not required to carry stations that
show mostly the same programming.  Therefore, many stations which were not carried
previously suddenly may have become eligible for carriage on your cable system, and many
stations which had previously been carried may no longer be available.

If a particular station was dropped by your cable system, it may be due to one of the
following reasons: the station did not deliver a good quality signal; the station and cable
operator failed to reach agreement on a payment to the station to permit the cable company to
carry the station; the cable system may have chosen not to pay copyright royalties for the
station; or the station was dropped to provide room for other services which the cable
operator decided to offer.  If you are dissatisfied with  the channels being provided by your
cable system, you should contact the cable company.

 

 

 

Bronze Problem Solver
commanguy
Posts: 3,940
Registered: ‎01-11-2010

Re: Fed up with Cable and Pulling the Plug

Comcast Teds

Thanks for the links. Looks like all the network channels we get are listed on the Significantly Viewed list.

Which is good. I really would hate switching over. Like my service as it stands now.

Stable, affordable for me, and at present I get enough channels.

 

Contributor
SanDiegoInExile
Posts: 21
Registered: ‎10-07-2011

Re: Fed up with Cable and Pulling the Plug

[ Edited ]

Linengray:

 

Seems like this decision was primarily a marketing one.  I also suspect the Sacramento television stations also had a say.  I know that if I ran a TV station in Sacramento, I would strongly insist to all providers that I didn't want some out-of-market affiliate co-existing on the dial, taking away eyeballs from my station, eating into my ad revenues.  I own that market and I want you watching my channel. I want you watching my early morning news, my local news, my primetime, and my commercials.

 

That leaves you with a couple options:

 

1.  Get another provider who is more flexible.  That's a rather limited option and would require you to be technically untruthful, and subject to having that account unceremoniously canceled if that provider figures out what you are doing.  My cousin "pretended" to live in City A, while his equipment resided in City Z.  One day, he discovered his entire system disabled, lost his deposit (based on "fraud"), and was forced to find a new provider.

 

2.  Your city controls cable operations.  If truly there are tens of thousands of bay area commuters up in arms over losing televised traffic reports on local San Francisco television, it shouldn't be too hard to get the attention of your city council. county reps, or whomever is involved with awarding the cable contract. The city can influence channel selection.

 

Frankly, though, I think this is a lost cause.  The examples you cited of up-state counties getting SF stations isn't a fair comparison.  Chico and Reno are minuscule markets compared to Sacramento.  The reason the SF and Sac stations co-exist in many of those markets is that the local population is tiny (some of those counties have only a few thousand residents) and the Chico (Market Size #131) and Reno (Market Size #108) markets are equally tiny.  Sacramento is in the Top 25 markets and those stations can demand that SF competition be taken off the dial.

 

Time Warner in Palm Springs does allow a handful of LA stations on their system.  The situation is very similar (lots of LA commuters/dual residences).  As a compromise with the po-dunk PS afiliates, TW blacks out all prime-time or matching programming.  That leaves mostly the news and some syndicated fare to be broadcast.  And TW sells the "blacked-out" time to infomercials.  If you want to watch primetime programming, you must watch the local PS stations.  There was an initial uproar when TW arbitrarily removed the LA affiliates, but this compromise calmed nerves.

 

Perhaps your local officials can insist upon a similar arrangement.