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Bronze Star Contributor
LowRanger
Posts: 132
Registered: ‎02-12-2011

Forum split?

I move that E-mail and Xfinity Connect be separated into two subforums.  The frailty of Xfinity Connect is really clogging up the pipes.

 

While we're at it, there should probably be a sticky in the E-mail forum for those who have made the unfortunate choice of using Outluck (or Outluck Express) and can't figure out why their e-mails are disappearing (failure to select "Leave a copy of messsages on server").  Actually, the problem isn't limited to the Microsoft products but they always seem to be part of the equation.

Service Expert
Queen-Evie
Posts: 12,331
Registered: ‎02-04-2004

Re: Forum split?

[ Edited ]

It won't happen because at one time in the not-so-distant past there were 2 separate forums: one for Xfinity Connect and another one for email clients. Those were called Email  and  XfinityConnect.

 

Each one was getting a lot of posts.

 

Even though each had its own place people still posted in the wrong one. I can't recall if we moved them to the correct place. If we did it was to much to handle and we stopped moving them.

 

The email client forum was discontinued. If they were separated again we'd be back to people posting in the wrong one.

 

The blurb at the top of the one devoted to email clients stated

 

"Post here to receive support for Outlook, Mac Mail, and Windows Mail Live"

 

Unfortunately people either did not pay attention to it OR many customer don't know what third party email clients are so they posted their XfinityConnect issues there.

 

There was no need to have 2 forums devoted to email.

 

The majority of people won't think "I have an XfinityConnect issue". They won't say "I need to check XfinityConnect".

 

What they will think and say is "I have an email issue", "I need to check my email". They would see Email and post XfinityConnect issues there, because XC is simply a fancy name for email.

 

 

 

 

 



 


Comcast employees must be authorized to post in the forum. Employees posting here have their names in red and are designated as employees. Names not in red are customers.

Bronze Star Contributor
LowRanger
Posts: 132
Registered: ‎02-12-2011

Re: Forum split?

I can't imagine, given what an unqualified mess (script errors, unavailability) Xfinity Connect seems to be for many, how support can wade through it all.

 

Of course if most of the users don't know the difference between POP3/SMTP and webmail, I suppose it wouldn't help.

Web Page Expert
BethKatz
Posts: 5,889
Registered: ‎11-14-2006

Re: Forum split?

It may look like there are a lot of posts here, but if you sort them by date, it should be manageable for the customer service folks. If they stay on top of it, it's not overwhelming. I hadn't been in this part of the forum since Thursday (6/8) and now on Monday (6/11) I'm seeing 315 messages (not threads).

 

And as Evie noted, people asking for help often don't know whether their problem is with an email client or the web-based email program.

Bronze Problem Solver
Latoque
Posts: 1,484
Registered: ‎06-10-2006

Re: Forum split?

[ Edited ]

BethKatz wrote:

----------------------------------------

 

And as Evie noted, people asking for help often don't know whether their problem is with an email client or the web-based email program.



I have to comment here.  As LowRanger mentioned, a lot of folks just don't understand what an email client program is for.  I know because for a long time I was one of them.  In all the time I had Windows 98 and then later XP, I just couldn't figure out what Outlook Express was for, and I had no one to teach me.  So I played around with it not understanding the differences between OE and web-based email accounts like Hotmail,  Yahoo, or Comcast, and got nothing but frustrated for my efforts.

 

Telling some noob to the internet and computers that they have an email client on their machine really tells them nothing unless they are also told what it does.  Perhaps the "Email" forum could have been saved had it just been named differently---something like "Email Clients" might have worked.  People who don't understand those differences usually don't know how to even ask a relevant question, because they don't have any knowledge of the possible problems with both types of email, or even the possible connections.

 

I have a friend who got his first computer at age 59.  One year ago.  I tutored him on how to get started, and one of the first things I did was to set him up with a Yahoo free email account, and then explained to him what an email client was.  He has Vista on his machine, and is a Comcast customer.  I also had to set him up with his Comcast email address, because the sub-contractor who hooked up his service couldn't be bothered to help him with it, and of course he had no clue that he even could have an email account with Comcast.

Web Page Expert
BethKatz
Posts: 5,889
Registered: ‎11-14-2006

Re: Forum split?

I go through this a lot. Explaining the difference between an email client such as Outlook or the Mac's Mail program and a web-based email program such as Xfinity Connect is difficult to do in a way that will be remembered. The understanding doesn't stick. That's why I almost always describe it that way with examples when answering questions here.

 

Many users don't understand the difference. For example, they don't know why clicking on mailto links on a web page opens their email client. And if they haven't configured that email client, weird stuff happens.

 

We attempt to help the casual user here. Computers should make our lives easier rather than harder. And many of us just want things to work.

Email Expert
CCCarole
Posts: 24,347
Registered: ‎05-21-2006

Re: Forum split?

[ Edited ]

Here is a very old article written by one of the former Moderators that explains in detail the difference between webmail (formerly Smartzone and now called XfinityConnect)

 

What is the difference between XfinityConnect(webmail) and an email client?

One consistent theme in this forum is that a lot of users don't really understand the difference between Comcast webmail (CW) and an email client (EC), like Outlook, Outlook Express, Eudora, Thunderbird, etc.  They're under the impression that these are just programs that do exactly the same thing, but with a slightly different interface.  This impression is false.  For those of you who do understand the difference, this will bore you, so go read another thread!

 For the rest of you, I think a simple analogy might help explain the difference.  Let's compare email to regular, paper-and-envelopes snail mail (SM).  When someone sends you an email, the message goes to the Comcast mail server. This is like SM going to your local friendly post office.
When you use CW, that's like driving from your house to the post office, standing at the counter, asking the clerk for your mail, then going through it right there.  You can throw some of it away, forward some of it, return some of it, or just have the clerk hold onto it for you.  But you're not taking any of it home with you.

 There is one advantage to doing this: if your significant other also wants to see the mail, she can drive from her office to the post office, and look at the mail, too.  Likewise, if you're not at home, you can still drive to the post office to check your mail. 
 By analogy, using CW, you can check your mail from any PC that gives you Internet access, even in an Internet cafe in Patagonia (been there, done that!).

 There are real disadvantages, however.  The post office won't let you set up an elaborate filing system to categorize your mail.  You can't keep unlimited amounts of mail at the post office.  Some postal clerk may get confused, and throw out all of your stored mail.  You can't pull out your calligraphy set when preparing a message to someone else, or when replying to a message - you have to use the pen that's chained to the counter.

 Using an email client, on the other hand, is like having a letter carrier deliver the mail to your house.  An EC brings all of your mail from the mail server to your PC, and picks up whatever outgoing messages you've prepared.
The downside, of course, is that once the mail has been delivered to your house, if your SO drives over to the post office and asks for the mail, they're going to tell her that there isn't any.  And, if you're away from home, the letter carrier isn't going to come to wherever you happen to be. 
By analogy, unless you have a laptop with you, you can't use your EC to receive or send email if you're away from your PC.  The solution to this problem is simple, however: when you're away, don't leave your EC running at home.  That way, it won't download your messages to your PC, and you can use CW from wherever you are.  When you get home again, fire up your EC, and bring everything down to your PC.

 The advantages of letting the letter carrier bring the mail to your house are many: you can keep as much of your old mail as you can find space for in your house.  You can create an elaborate filing system if you like.  You can create a system for filtering all the incoming mail, throwing out some of it without opening it, filing some of it, replying to some of it, and so on.  You can use all sorts of fancy pens to write messages.  You can make copies of your mail for safekeeping. 
 And if you move to a different country (in other words, switch ISPs), you can take all of your mail with you (if you terminate your Comcast account, any mail still sitting on the mail server the day after your account expires gets dumped).

 There are other important differences between CW and EC for which there is no real SM analogy.  For example, virtually every EC has an option whereby you can leave a copy of each message on the mail server.  This is like having the letter carrier deliver your mail, but leave copies at the post office, something that's not possible in the real world.  Another example: as some of you have discovered, when you click on a "mailto" link on a webpage, or when you try to mail a document from within Word or Excel, the program involved wants to use your default EC.  Since CW isn't an EC, it can't be your default.  In snail mail terms, this would be like sitting at home, writing a letter, putting it in your mail slot, and then waiting forever for the letter carrier, who never comes.

 In sum, if you're confused about the differences between CW and an EC, just remember that using CW is like driving to the post office, and that using an EC is like having a letter carrier bring the mail to your house.  
There are some situations in which CW is a handy tool.  But if you've got the choice, any EC is a better tool for managing your email.  Having a letter carrier is almost always better than relying on General Delivery.


Need Email Help? Please post the following information in your post.
Do you use XfinityConnect? The Full or Lite version?
Do you use an email client? Which one? (Eg; Windows Live mail, Outlook, a smartphone etc.)
Which browser/version do you use? And- have you cleared your browser cache?
Which operating system? XP, Vista, Windows 7, Mac OS X
Details of the problem you are having.




Bronze Problem Solver
Latoque
Posts: 1,484
Registered: ‎06-10-2006

Re: Forum split?

[ Edited ]

Carole, I, along with most of the other regular posters in here, understand the difference.  But noobs don't.  That old post should be made into a sticky since it's such a common issue.  I also posted one a while back that is even easier to follow than that one.  But either one of them would work.  The RL post office analogy is good, but the one I posted is much simpler.  And for a noob, simplicity is what's wanted and needed.

 

If you decide to use the older one, please put some paragraph breaks in there.  It hurts my eyes to read it.

Email Expert
CCCarole
Posts: 24,347
Registered: ‎05-21-2006

Re: Forum split?

Latoque,

I added some paragraphoing to that old article.  When I have some time, perhaps I will re-write it and post it and see if it can be made a sticky.

 

Carole



Need Email Help? Please post the following information in your post.
Do you use XfinityConnect? The Full or Lite version?
Do you use an email client? Which one? (Eg; Windows Live mail, Outlook, a smartphone etc.)
Which browser/version do you use? And- have you cleared your browser cache?
Which operating system? XP, Vista, Windows 7, Mac OS X
Details of the problem you are having.




Bronze Star Contributor
LowRanger
Posts: 132
Registered: ‎02-12-2011

Re: Forum split?

 


CCCarole wrote:They're under the impression that these are just programs that do exactly the same thing, but with a slightly different interface.  This impression is false.  For those of you who do understand the difference, this will bore you, so go read another thread!
I beg to differ.  Both allow you to do essentially the same things but the CW is just a lot clunkier (and a whole lot less robust).
Some postal clerk may get confused, and throw out all of your stored mail.
We have to acknowledge this when it comes to Comcast.
You can't pull out your calligraphy set when preparing a message to someone else, or when replying to a message - you have to use the pen that's chained to the counter.
You can do most everything in CW font-wise that you can do in most e-mail clients.
The downside, of course, is that once the mail has been delivered to your house, if your SO drives over to the post office and asks for the mail, they're going to tell her that there isn't any.
This is an argument that needs to be excised as it simply isn't true; yet it is the root of many people's e-mail issues.  Someone needs to start a campaign to make sure everyone understands the importance of "Leave a copy of the e-mail on the server".
Maybe a checklist (without all the tailoring for each and every desktop client) would be useful as an introduction before people set out to actually configure their clients.  Leaving the messages on the server is something that is arguably more important than getting a local client set up.

 

Email Expert
CCCarole
Posts: 24,347
Registered: ‎05-21-2006

Re: Forum split?


LowRanger wrote:

 


CCCarole wrote:They're under the impression that these are just programs that do exactly the same thing, but with a slightly different interface.  This impression is false.  For those of you who do understand the difference, this will bore you, so go read another thread!

I beg to differ.  Both allow you to do essentially the same things but the CW is just a lot clunkier (and a whole lot less robust).

I definitely do not agree with your statement unlss you are really generalizing here?  With CW you cannot easily move messages that you wish to save on a Cd, thumbdrive, etc.  First they have to be moved to an email client.  You do not have the control with CW that you have by having your messages on your PC, where you an store them anywhere you choose to and do not risk losing them on a server.

Some postal clerk may get confused, and throw out all of your stored mail.
We have to acknowledge this when it comes to Comcast.
You can't pull out your calligraphy set when preparing a message to someone else, or when replying to a message - you have to use the pen that's chained to the counter.
You can do most everything in CW font-wise that you can do in most e-mail clients.
Not true.  CW only gives you a choice of four fonts, compare that to he number of fonts you can use with any real email client.

The downside, of course, is that once the mail has been delivered to your house, if your SO drives over to the post office and asks for the mail, they're going to tell her that there isn't any.
This is an argument that needs to be excised as it simply isn't true; yet it is the root of many people's e-mail issues.  Someone needs to start a campaign to make sure everyone understands the importance of "Leave a copy of the e-mail on the server".
Maybe a checklist (without all the tailoring for each and every desktop client) would be useful as an introduction before people set out to actually configure their clients.  Leaving the messages on the server is something that is arguably more important than getting a local client set up.
The email settings to configure most email clients also contains the information regarding leaving messages on the server. I would rather have ALL the configuration settings available for someone all in one place.  That way they can set up an email client from start to finish.  Starting at the Advanced settings is backwards- First you need to set up the client itself, then go to the Advanced settings.


I did NOT author the article.  One of the Comcast Moderators did.

The above are my own opinions, we can agree to disagree tho.

CC

 


 



Need Email Help? Please post the following information in your post.
Do you use XfinityConnect? The Full or Lite version?
Do you use an email client? Which one? (Eg; Windows Live mail, Outlook, a smartphone etc.)
Which browser/version do you use? And- have you cleared your browser cache?
Which operating system? XP, Vista, Windows 7, Mac OS X
Details of the problem you are having.




Service Expert
Queen-Evie
Posts: 12,331
Registered: ‎02-04-2004

Re: Forum split?

[ Edited ]

Latoque wrote:

Carole, I, along with most of the other regular posters in here, understand the difference.  But noobs don't.  That old post should be made into a sticky since it's such a common issue.  I also posted one a while back that is even easier to follow than that one.  But either one of them would work.  The RL post office analogy is good, but the one I posted is much simpler.  And for a noob, simplicity is what's wanted and needed.

 

If you decide to use the older one, please put some paragraph breaks in there.  It hurts my eyes to read it.


 

It is a sticky. Well sort of a sticky.

 

It's hidden and you have to know where to look for it.

 

The path to the differences

 

http://forums.comcast.com/t5/E-Mail-and-Xfinity-Connect-Help/email-clients-Smartzone-HOW-TO/td-p/698...

 

Q11 What is the difference between Smartzone (webmail) and an email client?

 

 



 


Comcast employees must be authorized to post in the forum. Employees posting here have their names in red and are designated as employees. Names not in red are customers.

Bronze Star Contributor
LowRanger
Posts: 132
Registered: ‎02-12-2011

Re: Forum split?

If you're someone using one of the Microsoft e-mail clients, backing up and/or saving e-mails electronically isn't entirely trivial either.  CW allows you to create folders and print out important e-mails so in effect, it is a "training wheels" e-mail client.

 

Such is not to say that I buy into the insane argument that everyone should be using cloud mail or webmail in deference to a local e-mail client.  I think that's misguided; especially given the display disparity between each of the devices (and the unimaginable difficulty of moving files around on the Apple hand-held products).

 

You can stuff as many fonts as you want  into an e-mail but there's absolutely no guarantee that your addressee has those same fonts and that can be a real buzzkill.

 

What I was talking about with respect to settings is perhaps a summary for those who do know better. Include a little bit of background on what the settings represent so people think about what they're doing rather than following a microwave recipe.  The spoon feeding and step-by-step instructions may be what is creating this large group of "illiterates" that we lament.  Teach them to fish.

 

I think as long as people are going to try fetching mail from a handful of devices each day, there should be a baseline configuration for each device that includes leaving messages on the server so the forums aren't constantly bombarded with those "I just installed Outluck on my PC and can no longer get e-mails on my iPhone" panic queries.

 

I didn't intend to accuse CCCarole of writing or espousing the theories presented in the quote.  My failure to remove the wrote: part was unfortunate.

Email Expert
Posts: 18,235
Registered: ‎04-27-2004

Re: Forum split?


LowRanger wrote:

What I was talking about with respect to settings is perhaps a summary for those who do know better. Include a little bit of background on what the settings represent so people think about what they're doing rather than following a microwave recipe.  The spoon feeding and step-by-step instructions may be what is creating this large group of "illiterates" that we lament.  Teach them to fish.



That's a nice idea, but it doesn't work well in practice. Many people are just unwilling to put in the work to understand this technology enough to be able to use generic info. Every mail client has different organization to its configurations, and uses slightly different terms. Even going from one version to another of the same client can be confusing.

 

For example, Outlook and Outlook Express have a checkbox labeled "Leave messages on server after downloading". The analogue in Mac Mail is "Remove copy from server after retrieving a message", and then you have to select a time frame from a menu.

 

Most people just aren't interested in figuring this out, they want simple, step-by-step directions so that they can it going and get on with their life.

Service Expert
Queen-Evie
Posts: 12,331
Registered: ‎02-04-2004

Re: Forum split?

[ Edited ]

LowRanger wrote:

 

What I was talking about with respect to settings is perhaps a summary for those who do know better. Include a little bit of background on what the settings represent so people think about what they're doing rather than following a microwave recipe.  The spoon feeding and step-by-step instructions may be what is creating this large group of "illiterates" that we lament.  Teach them to fish.

 

I think as long as people are going to try fetching mail from a handful of devices each day, there should be a baseline configuration for each device that includes leaving messages on the server so the forums aren't constantly bombarded with those "I just installed Outluck on my PC and can no longer get e-mails on my iPhone" panic queries.

 

 


We could spend the next 100 years creating posts with basic information and what the settings represent. If we are lucky people will read them BEFORE setting up an email client. Of course those people would have to know about this forum first. Then they would have to know where to look to find the information.

 

Settings and what they represent are also on the internet. A search would give them the info they need.

 

The clients also have HELP files which should be utilized. Unfortunately a lot of people don't search the internet or use the program HELP files.

 

Also unfortunately many of them will set up an email client, realize mail is no longer on the server, and will ask here or other places "where is my mail after I set up an email client?".  They are not thinking about looking for posts/searching the internet/using Help files to answer their questions so they make a post and ask about it. If the info is available we could at least post links to it.

 

While it may be useful to have the info here for the most common email clients, there are other clients that are not commonly used. There is no way to find all of them in order to have info about them.

 

I use eM Client. I know my way around it. If someone asks about it I will be able to give them the answer. Because this is not one of the more common clients should it also be included in basic client info "just in case"? FWIW, eM Client has Leave a copy of messages on the server checked by default. (Other clients must be configured for this).  Also by default Remove from server after 7 days is checked. In order to keep the message on the server for longer or forever that box has to be unchecked.

 

While it seems to be a great idea, there are resources for them to use if they would take the time to look for them. Some people simply don't want to do any work at all-they want it handed to them on a silver platter. There are several of us who belong to the school of thought "show them HOW to find it for themselves". If they do maybe next time they will look first.

 

And those that do take the time to look but cannot find what they want or cannot figure it out can then ask.

 

"I installed Outlook and now my mail is no longer showing in my webmail inbox". I don't use Outlook. I could do the work for them, search and find the answer, then post it.

 

I've told people in the past to use the Outlook Help files for Leave a copy of messages on the server.

 

This accomplishes 2 things:

 

1) they find the answer

2) it makes them aware the Help files exist so they can use it

 

 

There is one more thing they could do. After installing the program play around with it. Click things such as Account and find out what is there. Click Settings if there is one-see what is listed and what it would do if you set or changed something. If people don't want Preview Pane, start clicking on View. They will see what's there and can figure out how to change it. The best teacher is not asking someone else but HANDS ON discovery.

 

It is much better for people to try it on their own first because it gives them a starting place for the next issue they have.  And they can get what they need faster instead of having to wait on someone to reply.

 

 

 


 



 


Comcast employees must be authorized to post in the forum. Employees posting here have their names in red and are designated as employees. Names not in red are customers.