Security and Anti-Virus

[hziemba]

Title sums it up - I'm running XP SP3 on a Lenovo x60t, and was running ok until I accepted the update that req'd a reboot. Well after the reboot, all seems ok until the login prompt. A few seconds after I log in, I get the BSOD.

I went used one of the Lenovo rescue utilities that let me see the event log, and it showed an application error with N360.exe.

So I tried boot to last good configuration, and that didn't seem to help. I did the start in safe mode, and that had the same BSOD. I tried to do safe mode with command prompt, which seemed to be OK. From that prompt, I ran restore (rstrui.exe) and restored to a point a few days before the problem occurred. Unfortunately, that didn't help either.

So then I try to remove Norton altogether but the Norton remover apparently runs only from Windows GUI.

Any ideas! There should be a way to recover from such a problem without having to rebuild your system.

[USAF_E-8_RET]

Hi hziemba,

I noticed you are running a Lenovo. Some of their models have a program called RapidBoot installed which has in the past caused conflicts with Norton. 

The program itself was pulled in May of this year:

http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/ThinkVantage-Technologies/RapidBoot-Fails-on-Unsigned-Driver/td-p/740837...

In the past the fix has been to go to Control Panel > Add/Remove Programs and uninstall Rapid Boot.

Please keep us posted if this works for you.

[hziemba]

Thanks for quick response, USAF - hopefully you can steer a fellow USAFer in the right direction.

I'm pretty good on keeping up to date on Lenovo software, but this one has never been installed on this machine.

Even if it were installed, I can't get much past the login screen because of Norton install, before I get the BSOD. The best I can do is get to DOS prompt - I never even get to a Desktop.

From the prompt I can restore from checkpoints, and rolled back to about a week before the problem started, but that doesn't help.

If the Norton install is irreversible even if you have an earlier checkpoint, that should be clearly be made known, before the update.

I hope Comcast or Symantec has a better answer than reinstall windows. I have a Norton backup, but that doesn't help if I can't get to GUI. It seems that NSS installs itself in a way that it can't be removed if there's a problem.

WHO DO I NEED TO CONTACT TO GET THIS FIXED NOW? WHO DO I NEED TO ELEVATE THIS TO?

[USAF_E-8_RET]

Hi hziemba,

OK - rapidboot was the easy fix, now we'll try something a bit more in depth:

Please folow the steps in the following instructions:

http://forums.comcast.com/t5/Security-and-Anti-Virus/How-To-Uninstall-Reinstall-Norton-Security-Suit...

This procedure will provide a clean install of Norton Security Suite.  As an overview, you will be removing NSS, running the Norton Removal Tool (to delete any left overs from the removal and ensuring a clean slate to start with), then installing a fresh copy of NSS.

Please note, when you go to download NSS, you will receive a popup for Constant Guard Protection Suite.  Click on the No Thanks Button and it will reveal a Get It Now button which will begin your download of NSS.

Once NSS is downloaded be sure to run LiveUpdate (rebooting as requested) unti it responds "no updates found".  The reboot one more time and you should be totally up to date.  Don;t forget to Import your ID Safe data if you use ID Safe for your logins. 

FYI - using a system restore to a prior dat usually breaks the Norton install.  It has to do with the daily (or more often) updates in the different definitions for Norton. Some defs are built on the previous ones and if yuo roll back even a few days there may be some defs missing needed to built on, so it is not unusual to have to reinstallNorton after running a System Restore.

Y9u do niot need to contact anybody esle to get this fixed as of right now, nor elevate it, we have had pretty good luck getting Norton products fixed right here.  If theneed arises, we do haveNorton enmployees who post on this forum and can help out also, so please try our suggestions and let us know how things go.

Thank you for your service!

[hziemba]

Just to confirm, that NSS removal tool will run from command prompt? Remember that I can’t get to a desktop w/o BSOD.

BTW, thank you for YOUR service...I got out in 1984...ancient , I know <g>.

[USAF_E-8_RET]

---

hziemba wrote:
Just to confirm, that NSS removal tool will run from command prompt? Remember that I can’t get to a desktop w/o BSOD.

BTW, thank you for YOUR service...I got out in 1984...ancient , I know <g>.

---

I have never tried to run the removal tool from a command prompt. 

Just curious, have you tried to get into safe mode with networking?   I think it'll be F8 on a Levono.

I retired Jan 1, 1989 after 23 1/2 years active.

[hziemba]

The only safe mode I can get w/o BSOD is the command prompt.

I can't remove anything from Add/Remove because I can't get to a Desktop w/o BSOD.

I followed the link you gave me, and just after the part about downloading, it says from the Desktop double-click the file.

-----------///-------------START OF COPY
Download and run the Norton Removal Tool

Download the Norton Removal Tool.
Save the file to the Windows desktop.
DOWNLOAD
On the Windows desktop, double-click the Norton Removal Tool icon.
Follow the on-screen instructions.
Restart your computer.
After the computer restarts, you can download and install your Norton product. For instructions, read the document:
Reinstalling Norton Security Suite or Norton Business Suite after running the Norton Removal Tool
Thank you for completing these steps, is your issue resolved?
Yes
No

-----------///-------------END OF COPY

So I'm up creek and no paddle.
:-(
Help!

[USAF_E-8_RET]

Not quite yet - I will alert the Norton experts who frequent this forum and see if someone can assist. 

You'll know as they will have _Norton on the end of their user names.

It may take a day or so, so please be patient.

[TonyW_Norton]

Hi hziemba,

I'm very sorry; BSOD's are incredibly frustrating, but hopefully we can figure this one out. I'd like to start with some information gathering:

1) what is the message you get with the BSOD? Please be as precise as possible, as this is critical information

2) are you able to access the dump file, and possibly copy it to removable media? When you encounter a BSOD, a dump file is created by Windows. I'm assuming that you probably didn't have your system setup to create Full Memory Dumps, but rather a minidump. Could you check c:\\windows\minidump for the latest one that was created? And if you're able to get it, could you send it to me at Tony_Weiss[at]Symantec.com?

3) You mention in your initial post that things were fine "…until I accepted the update that req'd a reboot". Though never explicitly stated in the post, your subject mentions an NSS update. Most of the time, LiveUpdates for your product will occur in the background unless run manually. Did you run LiveUpdate manually? Or was there a popup message that appeared? If you can provide any details about either, I'd appreciate it.

I apologize for the lengthy post and the questions. I want gather as much info as possible so we don't have you jumping through the same hoops over and over again. Thanks.

[hziemba]

It was a popup message that said that a reboot was req'd after the update. I have NSS to automatically do updates.

I'll get the minidump data in the morning.

The BSOD message I got was: PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_AREA. I've
had some other but this is what I get when trying to do a normal Win startup.

Also, I found that I could access the Windows Event file through one of the Lenovo utilities.
In event viewer, I saw:
Application error  Event 1000
Event Properties
Faulting application ccSvcHst.exe version 10.1.1.16, time stamp 0x4daa1893, faulting module MSVCR90.dll, version 9.0.30729.6161. time stamp 0x5dace5b9,exception code 0x40000015, fault offset 0x0005beae, process of 0xae8, application start time 0xcc SvcHst.wxe0.

Also, System Error, Event 7009
rc=2 (7009) 30000 Norton Security Suite

I did a tech support chat at the Symantec web site, which wasn't very helpful - over 90 minutes! He had me delete the whole Norton directory in Program Files, the N360 folder in /Windows/system32/drivers, and the Norton folder in /Documents and Settings/AllUsers/. I suspect there are still Norton files on the system.

[hziemba]

CORRECTION - the OS is Vista, not XP, sorry.

[hziemba]

Well, a glimmer of good news! 

I did more internet homework on the BSOD messages I was getting, and something made me think hardware.  So on a bit of a whim I removed one of the memory cards (the tablet PC came with one, and I bought the other at the same time as the PC).  Tried a restart....and to my surprise, no crash! A bit slower, or so it seemed, but I got to a Desktop, and ran MS Outlook OK. 

I've had heat problems before pushing 80 deg C which would cause the system to shut down.  I used an air can to blow through all the vents and sides of keyboard, and that got it down into upper 60s/low 70s.  Maybe that wasn't enough, and the high temp was causing the memory to have errors.  I've tried to take the PC apart but only got to the memory and HD bay... didn't think I needed to get to the keyboard...will give that a go later this week when I have some time.

However, not in the clear yet.  I still have the manually deleted NSS, so I have to remove the remnants from control panel, run the Norton removal tool from their web site, and then reinstall NSS.

Maybe NSS didn't cause the problem after all, but it sure looked like it did, especially when I got the application error in the log about n360 not loading.

Will keep you posted, and thanks for the info.

Is there anything else I need to do to get NSS running correctly?  One problem that I've had with Norton is that it seems to slow things down somewhat - any suggestions in that regard would be appreciated.

[USAF_E-8_RET]

Hi hziemba,

Well, things are indeed starting to look up due to you never givining up!  Sounds ike you are heading in the correct direction now.

NSS could have given you an error because it starts early in the Boot process and it did not start - because of the over temp/bad memory card - or what ever else stopped the boot sequence.  So  it looks like you need to get a clean install of NSS and hopefully that will get everything running properly again.

Please use the information n this prior post in this thread:

http://forums.comcast.com/t5/Security-and-Anti-Virus/BSOD-After-NSS-Update-HELP/m-p/1325991/highligh...

In regards to NSS slowing the system down, let's get it installed and working prior to doing any more troubleshooing of the slowness.  Actually Norton used to slow my system down and that is the reason I quit using it for a period of two years.  Once Norton heard the customers they changed things and I came back to it in 2009  and was very pleased with the speed increase and Norton has been keeping the spped up and the bogging down of the system very low.  One thing that will slow any AV downis having other security products running real time, but I think you did you did not have any.

Please keep us posted.