Security and Anti-Virus

[alternety]

I booted this morning and got warnings and a window from Norton that everything was turned off.  norton not activated. One from windows defender as well.  Told Norton to activate.  Went through settings. Some were different.  A bit later (I may have rebooted) back to the same situation. 

I have disconnected the machine from the internet.  I have run several antiviral/malware programs without finding anything.  Of course they are using older databases because I have disconnected the internet.

Something seems bad wrong.  Any ideas?

An additional point.  The release levels for Norton Security Suite at the norton site are radically different than what we have from Comcast. Is this reasonable?  Should we be updating from the Symantec site?

[USAF_E-8_RET]

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alternety wrote:

I booted this morning and got warnings and a window from Norton that everything was turned off.  norton not activated. One from windows defender as well.  Told Norton to activate.  Went through settings. Some were different.  A bit later (I may have rebooted) back to the same situation. 

I have disconnected the machine from the internet.  I have run several antiviral/malware programs without finding anything.  Of course they are using older databases because I have disconnected the internet.

Something seems bad wrong.  Any ideas?

An additional point.  The release levels for Norton Security Suite at the norton site are radically different than what we have from Comcast. Is this reasonable?  Should we be updating from the Symantec site?

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By release levels, are you talking about Version Numbers?  On the NSS Main Page, clcik on Help & Support, then click on ABOUT from the drop down menu.  The Version number should be 4.2.0.12, if it is not ,please post back with the Version number you have.  Once we know the Version number you have installed, we will be able to provide instructions as to the proper way to upgrade your system to the current one (if you are not up to date).

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You should not be updating the version from the Symantec site as their are differences in the programs.  The definitions are all the same, but the actual program  itself is different

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Please post back with what you find .

[wireaudio]

Well it's worth mentioning that norton can be active once per user account. In other words, if you have 2 computers, and when you signed into the web site to download Norton you used the SAME username (aka the @comcast.net email) for both, chances are one installation will keep de-activating.

The solution for that is to make another user. You can make a total of 7 user accounts at customer.comcast.com if you have just one. If you have more than one, make sure to sign in with the PRIMARY one to create more accounts.

Now, if this is the only computer, honestly, i would just call Norton at 8772727149 (this is their comcast line listed at security.comcast.net). You need to know your comcast email (@comcast.net) and password before you call them so make sure you know it.

Hope this helps.

[USAF_E-8_RET]

alternety,

There is one other case where this could happen.  If you cancelled you Comcst Internet service, Norton will be deactivated, as it is a complimentary service from Comcast.

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There could also be a glitch in the database of either Comcast or Norton.

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I've notified our admin of your situation and since it is the weekend, it may speed things up if you can provide the following info:
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Please email your best contact number, service address, account phone number and experience to his email address below. Please include a link to your post and copy of the post so he is aware of the issue.
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Thank you.
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Email the above info to:
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Detreon_Roberts@comcast.com

[alternety]

I am on 4.2.0.12.

It is quite possible I have two installed to the same main account.  I probably ran that way for weeks; but I am not sure.  I am having problems with that PC and have reinstalled windows several times along with Norton.  That may have confused some accounting software someplace.

A clear notice of the requirement to use different Comcast email addresses would be a good thing. I simply view them as email addresses. Likewise, if this is what caused this behavior, it would be real nice to display the cause in the application. This behavior  can easilly be inferred to be caused by an infection.

I wasted a day looking for a cause.

A further note - clicking spell check highlights the misspelled workd and freezes the post.  No editing, typing into the post, or actually posting it. All requested applications are being permitted on your page.

[USAF_E-8_RET]

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alternety wrote:

I am on 4.2.0.12.

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Good, that eliminates that solution./posibility.

It is quite possible I have two installed to the same main account.  I probably ran that way for weeks; but I am not sure.  I am having problems with that PC and have reinstalled windows several times along with Norton.  That may have confused some accounting software someplace.

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We have had folks who had corrupted installs of Norton for various reasons (not removing other AV programs, running other programs running in real time and causing conflicts including corrupt downloads of Norton.  You situation sounds very different and other have in fact installed Norton 3 or 4 times using the same either main or secondary account name/password.

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A clear notice of the requirement to use different Comcast email addresses would be a good thing. I simply view them as email addresses. Likewise, if this is what caused this behavior, it would be real nice to display the cause in the application. This behavior  can easilly be inferred to be caused by an infection.

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I agree that the current behavior of your system could be caused by an infection, but the reason for it is not because you used the same user name for more than one download of Norton.  I always recommend the use of the Primary Account, as most folks remember that account's user name and password.  I have not seen any where in the FAQ's that you must use a different user name for the installation of Norton on mulitple systems.  

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 A further note - clicking spell check highlights the misspelled workd and freezes the post.  No editing, typing into the post, or actually posting it. All requested applications are being permitted on your page.

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I will see if I can duplicate your problems above and post back if I can.

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Have you emailed Detreon_Roberts@comcast.com with the info I requested

you send to him in post #4 in this thread?  As I stated before, there appears to be a glitch in the info between Norton adn Comcast data bases and as you suggested, it may be caused by your numerous removals and reminstallas of Windows and Norton.  I do believe the only way your siutuation will be fixed is by Norton and Comcast working on it together.

[alternety]

Yes I did send the email.  I am waiting for a response.  Right now that machine is not connected to the net and I don't want to until I get security back in place.

[USAF_E-8_RET]

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alternety wrote:

Yes I did send the email.  I am waiting for a response.  Right now that machine is not connected to the net and I don't want to until I get security back in place.

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Thanks and understand where you are coming from.  Bear in mind, this is the end of a 3 day weekend and Dete will be overloaded in the AM (Tuesday), so we appreciate your patience.

[wireaudio]

This might be worth a shot: Why dont you call 8772727149 and talk to a rep, have him remote in your computer and check the settings and what could be causing the problems. Symantec is very good at this. It's worth a shot and it doesnt cost anything (unless you really have a virus and they find it, they might ask for money to remove that, however checking and making sure their software works is free from what i know).

[alternety]

Something else I remembered when I was fooling around today.  I had been carefully restoring the system by installing after generating a restore point and then seeing if things broke.

I used a restore to the last point several times. Each time I did that Norton popped up and said something needed to be fixed and maybe reactivated.  It would screw around for several minutes and then tell me all is forgiven and go ahead.  If it was treating each of these, to my mind utterly unnecessary and really really intrusive, annoying, PITA, little exercises, as a new install; that could also go a long way toward confusing things.

 As  sidenote, for no real purpose. I have found that the most serious problems with software I have had over the years, all seem to stem from the manufacturers attempts to make sure I have not stolen the software. Simply downloading a cracked copy would eliminate all this grief.

I wait.  Not going online until I know Norton will be functional.

PS, I like your tag line.  At least it is different than when I came back from Nam.  The troops are not being blamed because some AH decided to start yet another unwinnable war. This time, to add extra futility, a religious war that has been gong on for thousands of years and will continue at least as long.

[USAF_E-8_RET]

hi alternety,

I am receiving word that your problem has been addressed and fixed.  I also understand that you are questioning why Windows Defender was turned off when you installed Norton.  I'll pass on to you the same info I passed on to our admin:

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Norton turns off Windows Defender when it installs.  I have seen on the Norton Forums where folks have gone back and turned Defender back on after the install and activation is accomplished and there has been no conflict.  Theoretically the two should conflict, just like running 2 AV's or two firewalls is a no-no and that's why Norton turns Defender and Windows firewall off.  I have seen posts on Norton where Defender does conflict also.  The rule of thumb used at Norton and by me at Comcast is if someone is experiencing a slow down or other oddity, to be sure Windows Defender is turned off.  The word I continue to hear is that Norton is much better against spyware/malware than Defender is anyway.

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Now it is your system and totally up to you if you want to turn Windows Defender back on to try to see if there are any slow-downs or other oddities.  It is possible to turn Defender back on, although not recommended.

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Some more info can be seen in this thread on the Norton Forums.  Although it says Norton 360 it pertains to the Comcast Version of Norton Security Suite was well.

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Please post back if you have any other questions.

[Bartleby]

I can't speak directly to Norton issues if Windows Defender is turned back on--but as long as Defender is set up so real time protection isn't active, I would think running a manual scan from time to time wouldn't be an issue.  (And turning it back on will cause Windows update to continue to offer definition updates when available.  Something that I've noticed doesn't happen while it is turned off.  At least that's the case on my Windows 7 system.)

I'm using McAfee of late, because a subscription came with my system.  And the above has been true for me.  I recently got a brand new version of my suite via automatic McAfee updates.  At that time, Windows Defender was turned back off.  Which I should have realized, but didn't until I noticed a day or so after the McAfee "upgrade" that no more Defender definition updates were coming in.  So I turned Defender back on (sans real-time protection).  And haven't noticed any signs of conflict that way.

FWIW.

[alternety]

OK.  Now my other machine popped up Norton inactivated and Norton turned itself off. My other machine has Norton working just fine.

After 18 minutes on the Norton "help" phone line, II simply could not get the guy named Bonnie (not Russian) to understand the issue.

Can someone who resolved it the last time please take a look again. My gut tells me that the "database" problem that caused it the last time is responsible again.  I can't put my wife's machine back online until it is resolved. This is not a good thing.

[USAF_E-8_RET]

Hi alternety,

I have notified our Admin (Detreon) again and requested he contacts Norton re: your current problem,  and since it is the weekend, it may speed things up if you can provide the following info to him @ Detreon_Roberts@comcast.com

Please email your best contact number, service address, account phone number and experience to his email address below. Please include a link to your post and copy of the post so he is aware of the issue.
Please also inlude the user name used by your wife to sign-into her system.

Sorry to hear you have this problem again with the other system.

[ComcastSteve]

Try uninstalling and reinstalling the Norton. I had the same problem two weeks ago but after reinstalling, it works.

[alternety]

Steve, that worked. 

Is this going to happen periodically.

[USAF_E-8_RET]

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alternety wrote:

Steve, that worked. 

Is this going to happen periodically.

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Glad you got it sorted without going thru the last gyration we had to go thru.  I am really surpised Norton chat did not suggest that, as that is their "normal answer" to most problems.

That really should not happen periodically, although I did notice that it occurred at the beginning of the month aagin.  We'll see what happens the begining of November.

[alternety]

Now the Norton on my PC is canceled again.

What  is going on?

[USAF_E-8_RET]

Your PC?  About a month after NSS on your PC was reactivated by Norton and came back up - something is really weird. 

Do you have Windows Defender turned on now? 

Has it been turned on for the month since your Norton was reactivated by Norton?

Have you tried the uninstall and reinstall which helped your wife's PC?

I am sure we'll need all the info you can provide, especially since this is recurring.

[alternety]

I have spent the last hour+ on the phone with comcast and briefly Norton.  I can't really describe my satisfaction with that experience, I have noticed that this forum blocks "bad" words.  There are no good words to describe my customer support experience.

Comcast says it is Norton.  They can not, and will not, help at all.  Norton says, from the scripts being read in India, it is absolutly positively Comcast and Norton can do nothing.

Comcast told me thay they have no responsibility for Norton working for me.  I don't have to use the software and it is not provided by Comcast as part of the service I am paying for.  They just allow me to download it them I am a Norton customer. No doubt Norton pays Comcast to allow this. Stranger marketing schemes have been created over the years I suppose. And of course Comcast does not advertise this as a customer benefit.

No recognition that as a customer of Comcast, there is any responsibility on Comcasts' to assist in making this work.

They can provide no phone number for any manager inside Comcast to which I can take this issue so that the proper channels are opened to the actual area responsible for the problem. 

I have tried to explain the probability of Comcast sending Norton data on active accounts and showing this one as canceled. I have explained that there have to be at least one database sharing customer status between Norton and Comcast.  A supervisor explained that Comcast does not have a data processing department. He is absolutly positive there is nothing Comcast could do to cause Norton to believe I am no longer a Comcast customer.

On the positive side the three people at Comcast that I spoke to were polite to a person that was getting progressively more agitated. Really really agitated.

Scream!

[USAF_E-8_RET]

alternety,

Your experience with Comcast and Norton chat support does not surprise me.  The fact that neither of their CSR's (or supervisors) were aware of the database info exchange nor the workings of the co-ordination between the two companies, also does not surprise me.  I first became aware of the info/data exchange and a brief explanation of how it works the first time a problem came up.  Your first time was the second time it occurred and our admin working with his contact @ Norton got it straight, and now it has happened to your PC again.

I asked the questions I did in the post above because I will need to supply that info to our admin who will pass it on to his contact @ Norton and I would like to be able to include all the info I can in the inital contact so as we do not have to go back and forth with the "was this tried and what was the results". 

I would really like to make the contacts necessary, prior to the close of  their business today in hopes this does not need to dragout over the weekend again for you. In the meantime I will notify our admin of what has happened so far so he is aware more info will be coming later.

[CC_Dete]

@alternety  - Happy to help where I can. Please respond to USAF's questions so we can look into this further.

[alternety]

Do you have Windows Defender turned on now? 

It is running again.  It started in the last week or so.  Previously it would pop up a screen saying it had been prevented from running.

When that first came up I did some research on the issue.  From the Norton forums, Defender appears to be compatible with the Norton software; it is just automatically deactivated by several generations of the Norton software. The latest Norton release is supposed to have stopped doing that so Defender will run. Which may mean that Comcast has slipped us a newer version of Norton. But the overall gist of what I saw is that it does not conflict, and might be useful.  If that is incorrect I can go in an kill it. Actually I just did for jollies.

Has it been turned on for the month since your Norton was reactivated by Norton?

Have you tried the uninstall and reinstall which helped your wife's PC?

I did not uninstall.  I just did a new install over top and that fixed it. That seemed to prevent losing all my settings.  Since Norton does not actually let us download the software, I had went to Norton and redownlaoded their installer just to cover as many possibilities as I could.

I am sure we'll need all the info you can provide, especially since this is recurring.

Let me know if you need anything else.  The worst part of this happening is how long it may be off before I notice the little X on the tray.  Naked surfing is a really bad thing.

Overall, perhaps the most disturbing thing is the views of the two companies support.  The little explanation by Comcast that they were in no way responsible for helping their customers with resolving a Norton problem where both companies were saying it is the other's fault. And that by downloading it I was a Norton customer. That not only feels very wrong; but probably does not conform to normal business practice/law.  I have a paying contract only with Comcast. Norton is their subcontractor. And neither company has an established and live way to go any higher in the food chain to find someone that understands enough of the overall system process (it is likely to be either the Comcast customer record or some misinterpretation by Norton's computer system)  to get the problem presented to the right group of people.

I appreciate the help you guys here are providing.

[USAF_E-8_RET]

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alternety wrote:

Have you tried the uninstall and reinstall which helped your wife's PC?

I did not uninstall.  I just did a new install over top and that fixed it. That seemed to prevent losing all my settings.  Since Norton does not actually let us download the software, I had went to Norton and redownlaoded their installer just to cover as many possibilities as I could.

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 I am confused - I asked if you tired the uninstall and reinstall procedure on your system this time, since it helped your wife's system.  I think you were talking about your wife's system, but am I correct in thinking that your system is still deactivated?

I have asked our admin to contact Norton, so you need to email your best contact number, service address, account phone number to his email address below. Please include a link to this post .
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Email the above info to:
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Detreon_Roberts@comcast.com

Also please post back if your system's Norton is working or not at present (and what you did if anything)

[alternety]

Yes it is activated on my PC.  I reinstalled without uninstalling.

And I sent the requested email.

[USAF_E-8_RET]

TYVM for your response and also for emailing our admin.  If we hear anything back from Norton,I'll pass it on.

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I have been doing some research and need to know if you are interested in pursing the "why does this happen" , so that we can try to prevent this in the future, or if you are happy knowing now that at least a reinstall fixes the problem. 

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You also asked some questions earlier that I did not answer, as I was more interested in getting your system back up before the weekend, but since you're up and running, I'll go back to your questions.

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Do you have Windows Defender turned on now? 

It is running again.  It started in the last week or so.  Previously it would pop up a screen saying it had been prevented from running.

When that first came up I did some research on the issue.  From the Norton forums, Defender appears to be compatible with the Norton software; it is just automatically deactivated by several generations of the Norton software. The latest Norton release is supposed to have stopped doing that so Defender will run. Which may mean that Comcast has slipped us a newer version of Norton. But the overall gist of what I saw is that it does not conflict, and might be useful.  If that is incorrect I can go in an kill it. Actually I just did for jollies.

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I believe the reason it was popping up saying it had been prevented from running was because: 1) Norton was still activated and was preventing it from running. 2)It was trying to run because something triggered Windows Defender to run - such as a scheduled scan (which may have come from Windows Task Scheduler). 

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I do not doubt your research at Norton is correct - for certain Norton products.  Nortonhas many products and updates their products on different schedules.  NIS 2011 was just released and uses a diffrent SONAR (as an example) then Norton 360 (which NSS is based on) does.  I haven;t gone back and looked yet to see what the latest on Windows Defender is with the latest Norton upgrades, but I believe Norton's offical position still is "do not run any real-time protection alongside Norton".  Actually that discussion is like asking if Fire Fox is better than IE!    Everyone has an opinion.

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There is an update coming for NSS whicih will change the version number from 4.2.0.12 to 4.3.05.  This has already been put out to the paid subscripers of Norton 360.  So no, we have not been slipped a new version.  BTW - it will come thru Automatic Liveupdates (not sure if it will require reboot or not).

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I did not uninstall.  I just did a new install over top and that fixed it. That seemed to prevent losing all my settings.  Since Norton does not actually let us download the software, I had went to Norton and redownlaoded their installer just to cover as many possibilities as I could.

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You are correct, Norton does not let you download the software - because it is a special version of Norton 360 for Comcast Customers only and has to be obtained thru Comcast.  NSS is available here by clicking on the GET IT NOW button.  Just curious, but can you provide a link to the "norton installer" you downloaded from Norton?  I ask because normally an "over the top install" of Norton ends up getting corrupted.

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Overall, perhaps the most disturbing thing is the views of the two companies support.  The little explanation by Comcast that they were in no way responsible for helping their customers with resolving a Norton problem where both companies were saying it is the other's fault. And that by downloading it I was a Norton customer. That not only feels very wrong; but probably does not conform to normal business practice/law.  I have a paying contract only with Comcast. Norton is their subcontractor. And neither company has an established and live way to go any higher in the food chain to find someone that understands enough of the overall system process (it is likely to be either the Comcast customer record or some misinterpretation by Norton's computer system)  to get the problem presented to the right group of people.

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I will pass this on to our admin (if he hasn't already seen this) and ask him to do some checking / escalating to see if there is anything that can be done to stop this from occurring again.

[alternety]

Yes, I want to find out why and find a permanent solution.  The current behavior is unacceptable.  The basic issue is not seeing when it happens, and, as a result, spending n hours on the web with absolutely no protection. Utterly and completely unacceptable. I can not emphasize this too much.  It goes away and only changes a stupid little check mark to an x.  If it can't be explained/resolved I will be forced to go back what I was doing when Comcast provided McAffe. Since I will, under no circumstances, install McAffer, I was paying for another protection suite. It has been years since I allowed Norton. Reasons were bloat, unreasonable penetration of system behavior, alteration of my environment, and very difficult to eradicate (even with their uninstaller). And the unacceptable first response to any inquiry about Norton problems (well it must be corrupted; you need to uninstall, run the cleaner, and reinstall). Does no one at Symantec realize this is not a normal response to program problems among the universe of applications and should never be the response to everything that fails. Nor should it be necessary in  a well written/organized application. It is essentially never the fault of the operating environment. Always the poorly implemented application.

Norton has good evaluations for effectiveness.  That overrides my inherent dislike from many many years of experience. I still object to some of the things it insists on doing. But the price is right and evaluations good.

I would like to continue with Norton. But the current behavior is not acceptable. And would not occur if I was not getting it through Comcast. Ergo, Comcast needs to fix it.

Re:defender.

I thought I had disabled it.  It appears to be somewhat non-intuitive actions needed to actually turn it off completely. I think it is completely disabled now. Again, from research it does not appear to impact Norton. Whatever.  I am not committed to running Defender.

[USAF_E-8_RET]

OK - understand where you are coming from and I also ran Norton (bloat ware for many years) prior to the latest improvements in CPU useage.

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Please answer this question first:

Just curious, but can you provide a link to the "norton installer" you downloaded from Norton? 

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I ask because as far as I know there is nowhere on the Norton site that NSS can be downloaded.  It has to be originated from Comcast (authenicated with a Comcast account) and then you get transferred to some dark and dreary corner of the Norton domain (accessible only by Comcast) to download the NSS. 

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BTW - what is your operating system?

[alternety]

I am running Win 7 64 bit.

The downloader is what you get when you go through the Comcast site to get Norton.  The download is for the download manager that you have to run to do the actual install. And, of course, the instructions don't make sense.

[USAF_E-8_RET]

OK, that makes more sense - it came from Norton (thru the Comcast site).  I envisioned you downloading software from Norton, but I was wrong.

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Here is a quick guide to turn off Windows Defender in Win 7. http://www.simplehelp.net/2009/03/11/how-to-disable-windows-defender-in-windows-7/

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I'm out of here for tonight - could you check in The Windows Task Scheduler to see if there is a Windows Defender scan scheduled and when ti is scheduled for?

[USAF_E-8_RET]

@ alternety,

I just read a post over on the Norton Forums (answered by their admin in regards to Windows Defender.  I guess that is their official word - but still doesn't answer if it will run with everyone's system or not.

[CC_Dete]

Hi alternety - my contact at Norton is having someone reach out to you to investigate further. Expect a call or email. Please let us know how this goes.