Reply
New Visitor
wqesdfsdfwesdf
Posts: 4
Registered: ‎01-15-2013

Encryption of Limited Basic Services

[ Edited ]

Following the recent round of stories of Comcast increasing the encryption of limited cable (see the verge, engadet, etc) and from their own website, http://customer.comcast.com/help-and-support/cable-tv/limited-basic-encryption/, is this new or just the same information from the current digital migration?

 

If you have limited cable, will all local channels now be encrypted?

 

As example, we have cable plugged directly into a HD tuner TV and channels like 4-0,5-0,etc are encrypted and show the "get a box" message. However our local hi-def channels 4-1, 5-1, 7-1 etc are not encrypted and work fine. Will these be lost too?

 

Silver Problem Solver
rog286713
Posts: 13,999
Registered: ‎06-17-2008

Re: Encryption of Limited Basic Services

This is new.  Has nothing to do with digital migration.  Comcast along with other providers won the right to encrypt all programming requiring all customers to have a box on all tvs.  If you have your cable just plugged into the tv no box coming soon you will have nothing.

 

Comcast did a good job of making an FAQ about the whole thing, link below.

 

http://customer.comcast.com/help-and-support/cable-tv/limited-basic-encryption/

Contributor
Posts: 11
Registered: ‎11-05-2009

Is Comcast going to force customers to have a cable box and go fully encrypted ?

Is Comcast going fully encrypted and force subscribers to use a  cable  box ?     If this is the case I will only  use Comcast for internet and pop an antenna up on the roof for TV.  I'll stream whatever I can can't get via terrestrial broadcast. I don't think it's right to encrypt over the air broadcasts.  My son mentioned that  Comcast is only providing  a  standard  broadcast cable box.  My HD television is QCAM and my HDHOMERUN box is also QCAM.  Last year I got rid of  my entertainment center and now our television is mounted on the family room wall.  I am not and will not use a cable box.   I am sure I am not the only customer that feels this way.

 

 

Contributor
Posts: 11
Registered: ‎11-05-2009

Re: Encryption of Limited Basic Services

[ Edited ]

If this is the case then I'm going to drop cable TV.  My HD Television is mounted on my living room wall.

I'll pop up an antennea and stream whatever isn't available via terrestrial broadcast.

 

Comcast is just shooting themselves in the foot.  They will loose money.

 

 

Silver Problem Solver
commanguy
Posts: 5,439
Registered: ‎01-11-2010

Re: Is Comcast going to force customers to have a cable box and go fully encrypted ?

[ Edited ]

Seems to be the way they are going. But being a fellow customer I will find out when they do it.

What I don't like is my tv's can be set to pull channels out of the channel up/down scan and no Comcast box allows the ability to do this.

Favorites list is a workaround but not ideal.

 

Silver Problem Solver
rog286713
Posts: 13,999
Registered: ‎06-17-2008

Re: Encryption of Limited Basic Services

contrary to popular belief most have a cable box.   All providers including, fios, att, dish, require a cable box on all tvs this is not just comcast.   I also have my tv on the wall but I have the box hidden in the AV room,any AV tech can do this for you and use an ir extender to change channels.    You also can hide any wiring or any box if you get the right person to do it.

Silver Problem Solver
rog286713
Posts: 13,999
Registered: ‎06-17-2008

Re: Encryption of Limited Basic Services

if you dont like it get an hd antenna and subscirbe to netflix and hulu plus you will get almost everything you can get with comcast there and it will cost you 40.00 or less a month.

Contributor
Posts: 11
Registered: ‎11-05-2009

Re: Encryption of Limited Basic Services

That's exactly what I'm doing.  I'm going to do a signal check to see what HD channels I get over the air.

If I can get the major networks plus PBS combined with my  Hulu account I'll be fine. 

 

If Comcast complains  about the increased internet bandwidth I'll look for another internet pipe and drop them.

 

 

Comcast is only hurting themselves.

 

 

Also yeah I can put a cablebox in an av closet and setup a remote ir interface but I won't do it.  The last HD cablebox I had ran hot.   I will not risk my house burning  down.  

 

 

This  gave me a business idea .  I wonder if local network television affiliates would like to broadcast television over the internet.   mbone was designed for this.   

 

Contributor
Posts: 11
Registered: ‎11-05-2009

Re: Encryption of Limited Basic Services

I just read that my Roku box is going to support streaming network broadcast  television by the end of the year.

Similar to Aero but licensed.  Apparently  there are more people than  just myself that believe cable television is going to shoot itself is commiting financial suicide.   I just started searching for alternate internet providers, just in case.

Silver Problem Solver
commanguy
Posts: 5,439
Registered: ‎01-11-2010

Re: Encryption of Limited Basic Services

[ Edited ]

 I occasionally watch some PBS programs over the net if I miss them on tv.

Also check out this on Aereo.

http://www.bing.com/news/search?q=aereo&qpvt=aereo&FORM=EWRE

 

Contributor
Posts: 11
Registered: ‎11-05-2009

Re: Encryption of Limited Basic Services

Just because most providers require you to have a  cable box doesn't mean I will  accept it.

 

If enough customers cancel thier accounts then Comcast will come and offer not only a lower rate but

we won't require a cable box for service.   I didn't  drop extended  HD cable just to save money.  I dropped it because #1 the cable box ran hot and I didn't trust it.  I returned it, got another one and it ran hot too.. I was not going to risk my  house buring down.  #2 Program information is available with qcam and works well. 

I added a netflix  and hulu subscription, cut back to basic cable channels but I increased my internet bandwidth because I need it for remote vpn to work  and also I partticpate and a number of Open Source programming projects.  rog.. I don't need an AV tech.  I can do this myself.

 

You should check how hot your cable box  gets.

Silver Problem Solver
rog286713
Posts: 13,999
Registered: ‎06-17-2008

Re: Encryption of Limited Basic Services

The dont get that hot and I leave them on. 

Bronze Problem Solver
edpeters
Posts: 3,325
Registered: ‎12-13-2007

Re: Encryption of Limited Basic Services

As noted;  They don't get hot enough to be a fire hazard.  They are on the other-hand a disgusting waste of energy (that Comcast told the FCC they were concerned about, thus getting permission to encrypt more channels so they can save energy by not having to roll trucks for turn offs)!

Bronze Problem Solver
edpeters
Posts: 3,325
Registered: ‎12-13-2007

Re: Encryption of Limited Basic Services

So you're upset that they have taken away the Cable TV, that you weren't paying for?  Because Comcast never got around to installing a filter/trap on you internet only service.  I find it hard to understand what you are complaining about!  Now, others who are paying for Cable TV service, and having to 'rent' pieces of junk that does bad things to their signal and uses a lot of electricity:  Those people I feel sorry for!!!

Bronze Problem Solver
Jim721
Posts: 3,010
Registered: ‎12-05-2010

Re: Encryption of Limited Basic Services

90% of all comcast cable is now encrypted and it will be 100% very soon so for those of you with your cable line plugged right into the tv will no longer get anything you must have a box. And no they will never change back because being all encrypted allows comcast to control all your services remotely from there computers no need to send a tech to disable or remove your line if you cancel or dont pay 2 is they need the bandwidth that unencrypted signals are useing to fit in more hd channels ect....

Contributor
Posts: 11
Registered: ‎11-05-2009

Re: Encryption of Limited Basic Services

No problem.. if they never go back to unecrypted  they will never have me back as a customer. Plain and simple. 2 years ago I had a HD Cable box here and it overheated.  I WILL NEVER take the risk of having a cable box overheat in my house again. It's a fire hazard.  The Mototola cable box draws a lot of power too.

 

 Cable companies recieved federal funds to convert the cable system to digital from the Federal Government with the stipulation that broadcast stations remain in the clear.   As far as I know, comcast can only encrypt non broadcast channels.  PBS, CBS,ABC,NBC,FOX,ION, CW all need to remain unencrypted to comply with the grant  for the funds they recieved for the cable system upgrade.  Everything else I can stream off the internet with my Roku.  I'm not willing to risk a fire from a cable tv reciever overheating.  Also I'm not willing to pay for 50 channels that I don't watch !  Why  should I fund spanish channels or pay for an an online shopping  network?

 

Uhmm.. btw I use cable for work.  I need to vpn into remote sites.   I've never misseda payment so remove a line or cancel.. that's not a good reason.     The cable utilities have to comply with the rules laid out for the funds they  recieved to upgrade to a 100% digital design.

 

 

Contributor
Posts: 11
Registered: ‎11-05-2009

Re: Encryption of Limited Basic Services

edpeters.. you've got no clue.    I never stole cable.  I also have 15MB internet access.  I use it for VPN to work. I'm also a Linux/Mac OS developer and php/java web developer.    I dropped HD extended  cable  2  years ago because the motorola cable box got real hot.  It was replaced and that box ran hot too.  Hot enough to burn your fingers or fry an egg.   Connectivity to the HD television in the livingroom was cleaner with a cable straight from the wall anyway..cleaner picture too.  I don't watch a lot of tv.. maybe 2hrs/day that's it so it was a no brainer to drop to basic cable + 15MB internet access.    I've got an HDHOMERUN in the basement that has 2 QCAM tuners.  We use it in case we are writing code and want to watch a game.. I've got a large enough computer screen so I can have the game play a upper corner while I code.   

 

I'm more upset about my tax money going to help upgrade the cable infrastructure  with the agreement between the feds and the cable utiulities to keep broadcast television free and clear broken.  That's  what I'm upset about. 

 

I also don't want torent junk.  The motorola cable boxes are notorius for drawing a lot of power.  upwards of 380watts.  Don't take my word..  buy yourself a kill-o-watt meter, plug your cable box in that and plug the kill-o-watt into your ac receptacle.    remember whenyou dissipate power  you create heat.  that heat when not in a  well ventilated area can create a fire.  Many peoplehave entertainment centers with glass shelving and glass doors.   heat is going to build up in there. 

 

Other people have HD televisions mounted  on a wall.   cables are usually routed through a closet that exists behind the wall.   cable devices are installed in the closet... such as  a roku, that's why a rocku uses an rf remote not an infrared remote.  Anyway heat can build up in the closet and cause a fire  as well.

 

My cable modem  runs cool..it never ran hot.  I don't have  an issue with my cable modem.

 

 

 

Regular Contributor
Posts: 75
Registered: ‎07-04-2003

Re: Encryption of Limited Basic Services


jerrynsr wrote:

 

 

 

This  gave me a business idea .  I wonder if local network television affiliates would like to broadcast television over the internet.   mbone was designed for this.   

 


I'm sure CBS and Fox would *really* go for the idea.  :-)

Regular Contributor
Posts: 75
Registered: ‎07-04-2003

Re: Encryption of Limited Basic Services

He does state earlier that he cut back extended cable and dropped to basic.  I'm not sure where the assumption comes from that he was stealing it.

Regular Contributor
Posts: 75
Registered: ‎07-04-2003

Re: Encryption of Limited Basic Services


jerrynsr wrote:

As far as I know, comcast can only encrypt non broadcast channels.  PBS, CBS,ABC,NBC,FOX,ION, CW all need to remain unencrypted to comply with the grant  for the funds they recieved for the cable system upgrade.  

 

 


Not true.  Per FCC ruling - they can encrypt whatever they want -- including the broadcast channels.

Bronze Problem Solver
edpeters
Posts: 3,325
Registered: ‎12-13-2007

Re: Encryption of Limited Basic Services


jerrynsr wrote:

edpeters.. you've got no clue.    I never stole cable.  I also have 15MB internet access.  I use it for VPN to work. I'm also a Linux/Mac OS developer and php/java web developer.    I dropped HD extended  cable  2  years ago because the motorola cable box got real hot.  It was replaced and that box ran hot too.  Hot enough to burn your fingers or fry an egg.   Connectivity to the HD television in the livingroom was cleaner with a cable straight from the wall anyway..cleaner picture too.  I don't watch a lot of tv.. maybe 2hrs/day that's it so it was a no brainer to drop to basic cable + 15MB internet access.    I've got an HDHOMERUN in the basement that has 2 QCAM tuners.  We use it in case we are writing code and want to watch a game.. I've got a large enough computer screen so I can have the game play a upper corner while I code.   

 

I'm more upset about my tax money going to help upgrade the cable infrastructure  with the agreement between the feds and the cable utiulities to keep broadcast television free and clear broken.  That's  what I'm upset about. 

 

I also don't want torent junk.  The motorola cable boxes are notorius for drawing a lot of power.  upwards of 380watts.  Don't take my word..  buy yourself a kill-o-watt meter, plug your cable box in that and plug the kill-o-watt into your ac receptacle.    remember whenyou dissipate power  you create heat.  that heat when not in a  well ventilated area can create a fire.  Many peoplehave entertainment centers with glass shelving and glass doors.   heat is going to build up in there. 

 

Other people have HD televisions mounted  on a wall.   cables are usually routed through a closet that exists behind the wall.   cable devices are installed in the closet... such as  a roku, that's why a rocku uses an rf remote not an infrared remote.  Anyway heat can build up in the closet and cause a fire  as well.

 

My cable modem  runs cool..it never ran hot.  I don't have  an issue with my cable modem.

 

 

 


That second post of mine was made in another thread, and not ment for this one.  Apparently Comcast is as bad with their help forum tools as they are with there service..

Silver Problem Solver
commanguy
Posts: 5,439
Registered: ‎01-11-2010

Re: Encryption of Limited Basic Services


edpeters wrote

That second post of mine was made in another thread, and not ment for this one.  Apparently Comcast is as bad with their help forum tools as they are with there service..


Or Lithium is trying to keep things together

 

Gold Problem Solver
BruceW
Posts: 7,887
Registered: ‎12-03-2007

Re: Encryption of Limited Basic Services


wqesdfsdfwesdf wrote: ... channels like 4-0,5-0,etc are encrypted and show the "get a box" message. ...

On a digital tuner, channel numbers like 4-0 and 5-0 are analog channels. If you can see a message on them, they're not encrypted. This sounds like a part of Comcast's digital migration and the X-0 analog channels will probably be removed completely in the near future.


... However our local hi-def channels 4-1, 5-1, 7-1 etc are not encrypted and work fine. Will these be lost too?

Comcast has a lot of prep to do before this happens. It is almost certainly coming, but probably not even Comcast knows when.

Contributor
Posts: 11
Registered: ‎11-05-2009

Re: Encryption of Limited Basic Services

I cut back to basic for several reasons.  #1 was the motorola hd cable box ran hot, hot  means dissipaiting lots of power and potential fire hazard.  #2  I don't speak spanish!  There's far too many spanish channels we pay for in a bundle.  I could do without the home shopping network and all the other shopping network shows #3

My HD TV has better picture quality when connected directly to cable, and it looks cleaner too.  #4 I only watch @ 2hrs tv / day.    

 

I was suprised to see how many HD channels I get here in a South Eastern MA.  tvfool.com list 23 channels

I can get with an attic mounted anntenea so this weekend I'm going to get the amplified radio shack Antennacraft® 5MS921 Amplified HDTV Antenna and try it out.  If it works I'll disconnect my 75 ohm tv line from the data/tv splitter in the basement, connect the antennea to a splitter, one end to the tv upstairs, the other end to on of my 75 ohm tv jack on the second floor near the tv.    I'll check to see if the large hd tv in the living room gets a good signal.

 

 

Contributor
Posts: 11
Registered: ‎11-05-2009

Re: Encryption of Limited Basic Services

Why wouldn't FOX and CBS mind streaming video ?   Broadcast television is paid for by the commercials.

So.. why does the medium of  the transmission matter ?

 

 

Bronze Problem Solver
edpeters
Posts: 3,325
Registered: ‎12-13-2007

Re: Encryption of Limited Basic Services

You might not need an amp on the HD antenna (I'm feeding 4 tuners without one, from an antenna farm that is app 45 miles away).  

There may be some restriction on competing within a network, as well as carrying sporting events making them available in another region..

Regular Contributor
Posts: 75
Registered: ‎07-04-2003

Re: Encryption of Limited Basic Services


jerrynsr wrote:

Why wouldn't FOX and CBS mind streaming video ?   Broadcast television is paid for by the commercials.

So.. why does the medium of  the transmission matter ?

 

 


They both just threatened to turn their networks into cable networks this week because of Aereo -- so it appears it matters quite a lot to them.

Regular Contributor
Posts: 75
Registered: ‎07-04-2003

Re: Encryption of Limited Basic Services


jerrynsr wrote:

 

I was suprised to see how many HD channels I get here in a South Eastern MA.  tvfool.com list 23 channels

I can get with an attic mounted anntenea so this weekend I'm going to get the amplified radio shack Antennacraft® 5MS921 Amplified HDTV Antenna and try it out.  If it works I'll disconnect my 75 ohm tv line from the data/tv splitter in the basement, connect the antennea to a splitter, one end to the tv upstairs, the other end to on of my 75 ohm tv jack on the second floor near the tv.    I'll check to see if the large hd tv in the living room gets a good signal.

 

 


i suspect you may find yourself wishing you hadn't done this long ago.  I dropped the TV portion of cable (keeping the internet) a little over 2 years ago and couldn't be happier about the decision.

Gold Problem Solver
BruceW
Posts: 7,887
Registered: ‎12-03-2007

Re: Encryption of Limited Basic Services


jerrynsr wrote: Why wouldn't FOX and CBS mind streaming video ?   Broadcast television is paid for by the commercials. So.. why does the medium of  the transmission matter ?

Because over-the-air broadcasters extort enormous fees from cable and satellite providers. This has been an increasing important part of the broadcaster's revenue over the past decade or so, and they aren't going to give it up without a fight.