XfinityTV and Equipment

[nlf1]

      I am extremely unhappy about Comcast's decision to require customers to pay a monthly fee for digital cable boxes in order to receive the channels they are already paying for.  That's extortion.  The FTC has already said cable companies cannot charge for extra cable boxes, since the customer is paying for the service.  Here, the bulk of the channels I'm paying for will be unavailable to me, unless I also pay an extra monthly fee for this box on top of the fee for the cable service itself.  Prism or Dish or DirectTv will give me multiple boxes with DVR for free.   

      I have absolutely no incentive to stay with Comcast now.  My monthly fee already fluctuates anywhere from $140-$170 on Comcast's whim, despite me making no changes to my service.  They outsource customer service.  When my cable was installed, my father had to go up in the attic to do the installation, because the tech didn't want to do his job. The last time a tech came to my house, he didn't change my faulty cable/DVR box for a new one, and didn't fix the problem I was having.  If Comcast wants to stay in business, they should be giving customers reasons to stay customers, not doing everything they can think of to drive customers away.  I will be filing a complaint with the FTC regarding this digital box issue, and I urge all other customers to do so as well.

[rog286713]

The free DTA boxes comcast offers carry all the non subscribtion channels in digital starter. 

[Myalias23]

i agree with you . comcast does change the bill on a whim with no change in service. after 19 months I FINALLY got an agreement with the supervisor that i would get charged the same amount each month and it has happened. what a concept. service doesn't change and bill stays the same. they are the worst

[captmorn2374]

"The FTC has already said cable companies cannot charge for extra cable boxes, since the customer is paying for the service."

Do you have a link to this information?  I could not find anything that says that.

[rog286713]

the rule is for the switch to digital.  The dta boxes that you can get from comcast are free of charge and they will carry the channels on limited basic.  If you want more than that level of programming you need to step up and rent a box.  It use to be if you wanted that level of service you could just plug your cable direct into your tv, that is no longer the case and you can get up to 4 free dta boxes in most markets.  Like its always been if you want more channels or upgraded service beyone basic you need to rent a cable box.    So you are not being charged extra for a box, if you want more service you have to pay more. 

[edpeters]

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rog286713 wrote:

the rule is for the switch to digital.  The dta boxes that you can get from comcast are free of charge and they will carry the channels on limited basic.  If you want more than that level of programming you need to step up and rent a box.  It use to be if you wanted that level of service you could just plug your cable direct into your tv, that is no longer the case and you can get up to 4 free dta boxes in most markets.  Like its always been if you want more channels or upgraded service beyone basic you need to rent a cable box.    So you are not being charged extra for a box, if you want more service you have to pay more. 

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I am assuming that "Limited Basic" is also referred to as "Basic Cable" (around 20-30 channels)?  Wouldn't it be nice if Comcast/Xfinity had only one name for each level of service?  Anyway, I have Digital Starter and my DTA gets all the stations that are offered in that package around a hundred, all the channels that my Comcast (Motorola) box gets (except for BBC America for some reason).

[ComcastKeisha]

nlf1---

In a private message can you send me your Comcast account number so that I can look at your account and address your situation properly.

[spmorris]

I love the fact that what comcast is now chargin $18.50 for (limited basic) you will have to pay $59.50 for after the switch to receive the same channel line-up.  I don't think so.  I've been with comcast for about 8 years and have been through it with them but this is just too much.  Over three times the cost with nothing extra?   As for the set top boxes there's absolutely no reason for comcast to require them except to milk their customers for more money.  Any TV with a Quam tuner (any modern hd tv) can read a digital signal. They already broadcast the basic stations in digital because they're required to but they just want to charge customers a fee so they scramble the signals and make it so you can only get the channels you pay for if you also rent the box from them.  Leaving for Dish or whoever before the first.

[commanguy]

$59.50 sounds more like the cost for Digital Starter (the old Expanded Basic lineup with a few additions). If someone at the local office is trying to tell you that is the Limited Basic tier ask them for a price list which they are required to give you and have them show you this.

If they are raising the price that much then Comcast is foolish.

[spmorris]

That's exactly what they're doing and why i and probably quite a few others will no longer be comcast customers after this month.  The new limited basic lineup after the 1st will only include basically what you could get for free with an antenna.  Limited basic was a good value.  You didn't get all of your channels with hd but it was good enough.  I guess Comcast has decided has decided that their customer base will bear it. 

[floter]

The problem is the same for those of us with Digital Economy.  After installing new digital adapter boxes my TVs received only the basic channels.  I was told we would be required to rent set top boxes to receive just the digital economy channels!

[ComcastKeisha]

nlf1--

I have received your PM and I have escalated your issue and someone from your local region will be in contact with you soon to discuss this matter with you.

[edpeters]

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ComcastKeisha wrote:

nlf1--

I have received your PM and I have escalated your issue and someone from your local region will be in contact with you soon to discuss this matter with you.

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Maybe you could direct the rest of us to a site that spells out exactly what a DTA is capable of receiving when we have the digital starter package?

[spudler]

You know I was just on here looking up why my recent bill is almost $200 when I choose not to get any of the premium channels to keep my bill under $120 now having same Triple Pay Tier with No Premium channels and no PPV fees I am paying more then If I had the complete Platinum( or whatever the call the everything package), I have been debating leaving Comcast or at minimum dropping my DVR, Sports Channel the only frills I actually have and looking into a way to watch TV through my Laptop as I can plug this easily into my TV.

This last hike and the ridiculous fee of $20 for the ability to watch what I already pay for is the final straw.

[Reddog417]

You're right, this digitalnow program stinks.  1)  I got no notice that the change was coming and that boxes would be required.  I get ads for xfinity 4 times a week, and I open all of them thinking it might be a real communication.  But in all that junk mail I can't recall a single notice about a required change.  2)  Only the first two boxes are free, any more than that and they cost $$.  This is a degradation of my service, since before, the number of TVs I could have hooked up was unlimited.  Way to ratchet your customers, Comcast.  You obviously are taking lessons in customer disservice from Verizon.  Congratulations on stooping to their level.  I guess it's time to look at Dish.

[Reddog417]

Only two free boxes in this market - so I'd have to pay more for exactly the same service I have now.

[Del_T]

BUT the little DTA box does NOT provide HD (High Definition) for the local TV Channels that broadcast in HD!  I was very sad to find that out from Comcast support.  But will it let you watch your Paid subscription to HBO?

So, I have had to hook up an antenna to get Local Channels in HD, FREE but messy.

[JayInAlg]

Del

The DTA's do not receive digital preferred, Sports & Entertanment, premiums, On Demand or Music Choice.

You can add a splitter and A/B switch to watch any remaining clearQAM channels directly on coax with instructions HERE, this will bypass the DTA to watch HD locals if they are available in clearQAM on your system.

Since these DTA's were intented for expanded basic subs with older analog cable ready TV's going through the digital transition, they are limited on their function.

[Aliquot]

Comcast gave two free cable boxes to each subscriber so they could get a digital signal on their analog TV. However, if someone who owns a free box wants to sell me their free box, how can Comcast justify not allowing me to purchase the previously free box to use on my account? Instead, i was told that Comcast refuses to allow the box to be hooked up to my account unless i obtain a box and rent it from them. I am proceeding to complain to the FTC since i believe certain constitutional rights are being abused by Comcast.

[commanguy]

The boxes are property of Comcast and linked to  each customers account. For a customer to sell you their "free:" box it would have to be turned back in to have it removed from their account. Then they couldn't sell it to you. Also if they don't return the box if they cancel service they get hit with the unreturned equipment charge.

I also think a lot of those "free" boxes have the charges for rental included in the base service charge. When I had the Preferred tier a box is listed as included. The charge for the box and remote were listed as part of the Preferred tier service under the bundle I had at that time. My first box died and when I returned it they pulled that S/N from my account and put the new box S/N on my account.

Same for the DTAs. They are linked to a customer account.

And just out of curiuosity what constitutional rights are being violated?

[spmorris]

There are no constitutional rights guaranteeing you entertainment.  What i think the previous poster was probably referring to is simple scam-artistry.  Comcast is  selling you a service like digital preferred with all of its channels etc..  You can pay for this service until the cows come home but unless you also rent a descrambler device (comcast dvr&c) you cannot actually make use of these services and view them on your home television or any other device.  Hence comcast is selling you this package of channels with the knowledge that this package is completely empty and useless unless you also purchase hardware not mentioned in the deal offered you by the company.  Possibly prosecutable as a hidden message scam as not only is comcast the provider scrambling the channels here but is also the one selling you the equipment to descramble the channels that you are already paying for.

[halfband]

The first box is included as part of the package.  In areas that have completed the digital upgrade you will need additional boxes to continue to get more than one "stream".  The FCC and congress allowed this for digital transmission when they let the satellite companies use "mirroring fees"  The laws were changed to specifically allow this.  Hollywood has always wanted to charge you "per viewing" and has pushed for "per stream" or per viewer fees for years.  HD TV stations also are opting out of "must carry" rules and instead charging the cable systems a fee to be rebroadcast.  Comcast passes these fees along, taking their cut of the action.  The digital encryption, which was originally implemented to address cable theft, has the side effect of making a decoder box (or cable card) necessary for every decoded stream.  While we have been accustomed to hooking up as much of our own equipment as we see fit without additional charges, those days are now gone.  You can only vote with the wallet but most areas do not have other service providers who will treat you any better.

[commanguy]

halfband

 You mean it has only been about money all this time and not customer satisfaction?

Too bad the hardware for using cablecards in tvs is no longer available. I wouldn't mind paying for a cable card in a tv for access. That would work so much better for older subscribers who are not that comfortable using the universal remotes.

[halfband]

Yes, unfortunately you are exactly correct, it is not a customer first business.  There is a lot of money changing hands and a number of businesses that have their fingers in the pie.

Cable cards or anything that puts control of the tuner back into the hands of the consumer would help a lot.  The loss of built in TV features like PIP, need for extra remotes, and the performance of the cable boxes would no longer be a "comcast issue."  Unfortunately cable card was just ahead of its time, but the digital transition has greatly reawakened interest.  I have a cable card tuner (silicon dust) and find it far superior to a standard set top box.  But the cable card tuners are far from as simple a solution as the older cable card TVs, I hope we see more players rejoin the field. 

The additional cost of boxes is also an issue that is gathering a lot of attention  At $10-$20 (regular box to DVR) a pop for each outlet that adds up pretty quick.  There are a lot of customers who are struggling to justify that kind of cost "for entertainment."   Ideally there would be a cheaper solution, but with with hollywood and the tv broadcasters wanting a cut of the revenue it is unlikely even something like the upcoming HD DTA will be that much cheaper.  The equipment credit for not using a box is only $2.00-$2.50 so it not the cost of the boxes themselves that is driving the high extra outlet fees.

[Aliquot]

For legitimite reasons, not necessary to explain in this post, I have 13 TV's in my home.  Over half of them have been rendered obsolete unless I rent a box monthly from Comcast to enable them to get a broadcast signal.  Essentially, I must now pay fopr what was once a free service and for what continues to be a free service for people with Digital antennas.  We used to be able to view TV broadcasts from each and every set by receiving free broadcast signals from TV stations.  Congress shut that down due to what I believe are bogus bandwidth issues.  What I think is unconstitutional is that I am now foreced to rent digital boxes from a cable company in order to use my TV's.  Specifically, the Bill of Rights and Amendments guarantee the personal liberties of 1) being able to communicate with the world, for which TV reception is an enabler, and 2) denies the usurpment of personal property, which others may be denied the use of.  In other words, if you can't pay the cable company for a box or can't pay for a new antenna to put on the top of your house, you are are being denied the use of TV broadcasts which are generally available to everyone else.

[halfband]

Actually you can buy a box, a tivo, moxi etc.  They use cable cards for the decryption needed to access the video stream.   The cards themselves are fairly inexpensive to rent.  The issue is not driven just by the equipment cost, it is also the mirroring fees and programming charges that are now basically charged "per outlet/stream".   Congress passed laws for the satellite providers to make this "legal", hollywood and the tv broadcasters want in on the gravy train and this is how they are going to do it.  Comcast just gets its cut of the action.

In your specific case with the high number of TVs you might want to look at a different distribution system (
If you have not investigated them already).  The Ceton and Silicon Dust tuners allow access to 4 or 3 tuned video streams per cable card.  These can be then be restreamed to extenders (xbox) over ethernet.  That or something along the lines of a slingbox device.  The standard comcast customer model is simply not setup to service that many tvs in a way that makes economic sense, your configuration is more like a business model.  Your situation is a bit unusual and could easily be the subject of its own thread.

[commanguy]

The transition to digital broadcast frequencies for Over the Air broadcast stations was done to free up the analog frequencies for a potential emergency responder network to prevent the communication issues with the attacks on the World Trade Center.

This did not require Comcast to switch to the use of set top boxes. That was totally their decision, obviously for both increased revenue and prevention of cable theft in areas by encryption. I don't agree with the method they are doing since Comcast heavily advertized at the start of the Federal Digital Change over they stated "no boxes would be needed to continue receiving the channels you pay for."

[as130]

I too am extremely upset about this and will file a complaint with the FTC and my state's AG's office.

You can't downgrade service, call it an upgrade, and force me to spend more for service I already contracted for.

Before, I could get all channels, including HD channels, by directly plugging the cable into the TV.  Now, I either have to rig up a ridiculous, clunky, a/b switch with 5 coax cables and two separate remotes, or rent a cable box from Comcast.  On another TV where I have a Series 2 TiVo (no cable card), the DTA doesn't work at all.  Comcast's solution -- rent a cable box.

If they have their way, I'll be paying them $200/yr more to access the channels I pay for.  That's just unfair.

It's also an unfair trade practice and deceptive advertising violation -- I saw a commercial for Digital Now last night highlighting that there would be no additional cost.

I assume class action lawsuits are on the way.  Sign me up.

[larry35]

Just talked with reps tonite and they are sending 3 boxes free.  But with 5 tv viewing areas, I will probably have to rent two for extended coverage.

[edpeters]

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rog286713 wrote:

The free DTA boxes comcast offers carry all the non subscribtion channels in digital starter. 

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What are " non subscribtion channels"?  For instance, in 80026 (Colorado), BBC America (channel 162) is in Digital Starter, yet only a set-top box receives it, the DTA does not....

[AntiRobo]

You have to understand.  Comcast's business model includes three functions: advertising, acquiring new cable providers (and now tv studios) and purchasing politicians.

Acquistion provides them with enough new customers so they don't have to worry about losing a few through bad service and price gouging. And on top of that, semi-monopoly (du-opolies or tri-opolies in most markets, plus HOAs that forbid dishes) provides few companies - who also feature bad customer service - so comcast has little to worry about.   The entire broadband/cable situation in this country is conclusive proof that the private sector not only does not necessarily do things better, but that there are many things they don't even do well.  Unless of course you are willing to fork over a car payment sized monthly fee. 

[JayInAlg]

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edpeters wrote:

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rog286713 wrote:

The free DTA boxes comcast offers carry all the non subscribtion channels in digital starter. 

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What are " non subscribtion channels"?  For instance, in 80026 (Colorado), BBC America (channel 162) is in Digital Starter, yet only a set-top box receives it, the DTA does not....

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Ed

Rog's answer was wrong as are so many he posts.  DTA's do not 100% in every market, mirror a full box for digital starter.  Differences like this vary from market to market so it can't be a blanket statement for all Comcast subscribers.

[Aliquot]

I looked at Ceton and Silicon Dust, but both appear to require me to still rent from Comcast, which is what I am trying to avoid in the first place. Id like to be able to buy a sevice and watch it throughout my home, just like i used to with TV the way it used to be. I am willing to buy components to link TVs with service but dont want to rent boxes or cards for every TV in my house (lots in my particular case).

[West-Houston]

I agree with you.  I just found out that my expensive Panel TV which I mounted on my wall must now have a clunky box with power connection mounted on the wall with it so I can use what I am paying for.  In addition to that I must pay extra a month to receive better service.  What a joke.

DirectTV here I come!!  Comcast goodbye!!

[Commtech9501]

Directv will also require a box for your TV. Just an FYI to be prepared for that if you switch providers.

[West-Houston]

Thanks yes I know.  But at least will be paying much less than Comcast is now charging and want to add another $1.99/month as an insult!

Sometimes principles of customer service for someone who has been with Comcast over 8 years mean more than money!  As I have noted the only response I get from Comcast is this little sarcastic note which leads me with an impress that I am completely stupid!!

You just made my point clearer.

Regards

[Del_T]

Agreed! For Christmas I purchased the Little Ceton InfiniTV 4 tuner USB box for $275 along with $200 Xbox 360 slim. I obtained the M cable card $1.75 per month and Comcast quickly set it up without problems. Expensive initial setup but it works great and will pay for itself over time. But wife still likes Comcast DVR and Remote better.

[lennn99]

You can always do what I did with the ten tvs I have. I put a hddvr on 1, an got the two digital adapers the give for free a put push push off conectors on them and carry them to the sets I want to use.they last about two months and Comcast will replace them for free( they even send a tech out to give the to you). It's a pain but at least it costs Comcast money( which makes me feel better) for charging me more for downgrading my service!

[rfslaw57]

Isn't it interesting.  All new HD tvs have HD tuners.  Yet they are rendered almost useless by Comcast. You can hook the cable into one of these tvs and get some basic HD channels, but not all even though you are paying premium HD rates for one HD box. But, are we really suprised?  Because of my location in a wooded area, I must use cable.  I'm sure many others are like me. So I skip HD on most of my HD tvs.  Thanks Comcast.  

[Sharonbarraco]

Two of our TV's that had cable straight out of the wall no longer receive any cable channels. Do I need to get two boxes? Are they free? We pay a small fortune for cable each month.  If the FCC says I don't have to pay for extra boxes, I need to file a complaint too.

[JayInAlg]

Comcast should have notified you months ago if additional equipment is needed, you can call to confirm.

If these are digital TV's, do a re-scan of all channels with the TV's menu, the channels might have just moved around, which is common without notification.